Why Traditions Matter: A CMR Staff Roundtable

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In this episode, Chris and Alisa Grace explore the importance of family traditions, especially during the holiday season. They discuss how traditions create bonding, foster a sense of belonging, and adapt over time as families grow and change. Joined by CMR staff members Jane Locke and Tatum Munivez, they share personal stories and offer practical insights into navigating traditions in the face of life changes like marriage, moving, or loss. Whether you're celebrating with your parents, kids, in-laws, or friends, this episode offers meaningful ways to build relationships and honor the deeper reasons for the season.

Resources Mentioned:

• "23 of the Best Christmas Traditions Ever" Blog - A list of diverse holiday traditions for every life stage, from singles to families with grown children. 
• Holiday Resources from the CMR - Insights, Tips, and Tools to Enjoy a Meaningful Holiday Season.

Connect with Us:

• Website: cmr.biola.edu
• Facebook: facebook.com/biolacmr
• Instagram: instagram.com/biolacmr
• YouTube: www.youtube.com/@biola-cmr

Join the Conversation:

• Subscribe to The Art of Relationships Podcast to never miss an episode.
• Leave a review on [Apple Podcasts/Spotify/Your platform] to help others discover the show.
• Share this episode with someone who could benefit from these relationship insights.
• Sign up for weekly updates and resources from the Center for Marriage and Relationships! http://eepurl.com/bgsuQv

About the Hosts:

Chris Grace, Ph.D., and Alisa Grace are passionate about helping people build and sustain healthy relationships. As leaders of the Biola University Center for Marriage and Relationships, they combine the wisdom of Scripture with scholarly research to offer practical advice and insights. Learn more about their work at cmr.biola.edu.

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Chris [00:00:00] Hey, friends, as the year comes to a close, we want to invite you to join us in fueling the future of healthy Christ centered relationships.

 

Alisa [00:00:08] That's right. Right here at the Center for Marriage and Relationships. We are so passionate about equipping individuals, couples and families with biblical wisdom and really practical tools to grow stronger together.

 

Chris [00:00:23] Yeah. And so through the relationship initiative, your support can make a life changing impact. You can give monthly and you'll be part of the mission to transform relationships for God's glory. Here's how you can make a difference. So at least for just $10 a month, you can help expand the sea Mars reach through these things like podcast articles and online courses.

 

Alisa [00:00:42] Yeah. In $20 a month, you're helping couples reconnect with free mentoring and seminars. And then for $40 a month that supports are counseling services and conferences that help to reconcile and heal relationships.

 

Chris [00:00:57] For 100 a month. Man You're revolutionizing families and communities by empowering us at the CMA to create and deliver transformative resources.

 

Alisa [00:01:05] So your generosity, as you know, is tax deductible, and it equips us to continue providing timeless biblical wisdom and innovative tools to a world that so desperately needs Christ centered relationships.

 

Chris [00:01:19] So join us in bringing Christ's healing love to more relationships this holiday season. You can visit us at cmr@biola.edu today to make your monthly gift.

 

Alisa [00:01:29] Yeah. Together we can strengthen marriages, restore hope, and build a thriving future.

 

Chris [00:01:36] Hey, thanks for partnering with us and for being part of this mission to transform lives.

 

Mandy [00:01:42] Welcome to the Art of Relationships. This podcast is produced by the Biola University Center for Marriage and Relationships. Let's get right into it.

 

Chris [00:01:52] Well, welcome to another Art of Relationships podcast. My name is Chris and my wonderful, beautiful co-host, Lisa, sitting over there. Lisa It's so fun to do podcast together. We call this the art of Relationships because they talk about everything related to relationships. And that's really fun to do, isn't it? To talk about things that our listeners find important, that we find important. And we're going to talk about one today about family traditions.

 

Alisa [00:02:21] Yeah, it's the holiday season. We've got Thanksgiving, Christmas coming up. And the thing about I think these traditions is that when you do them right, it really does something significant in a family, doesn't it?

 

Chris [00:02:36] Yeah, it really does. And today, we're joined by two wonderful guests. In fact, this is called our kind of our CMA team right here. Right. Lisa, why don't you introduce our guests today?

 

Alisa [00:02:48] Yes. Well, today we have with this our brand new two brand new staff members. And we have Jane Locke. She's our new administrative assistant. She works really closely with us. And really, she's the one that keeps the center for marriage and relationships running. So we are super grateful to have you, Jane. And then we also have our brand new marketing communications manager, Tatum Moonves.

 

Tatum [00:03:13] Did I say that? I Yeah, you said it right. That's her new name.

 

Alisa [00:03:18] Not to be confused with Tatum was Bock. She was an easy choice.

 

Chris [00:03:23] She's no longer with us. I'm so glad. That's why I had you introduced. Because I'll be honest with you. Because if I could. Now I really don't know how to pronounce either. Last name.

 

Tatum [00:03:33] Either.

 

Chris [00:03:33] Barely as easy.

 

Tatum [00:03:35] Walk is easy.

 

Chris [00:03:36] Yeah, well, say it one more time.

 

Alisa [00:03:38] Moonves. Wow. Is that right?

 

Tatum [00:03:40] Yeah, me too. Me?

 

Chris [00:03:41] You know, you've been married now for. Let me guess. I'm going to say for three month.

 

Tatum [00:03:48] To month to month to month. So big shout out.

 

Alisa [00:03:51] To Noah Moon of.

 

Tatum [00:03:53] Is my biggest fan.

 

Alisa [00:03:54] That's right.

 

Chris [00:03:55] Biggest fan. Well, both of you guys, thanks for joining us. Thanks for joining the team. First of all, this whole set up and everything is because these two put it all together and they made this place really fun. So, Lisa, traditions, family traditions, holiday traditions, we thought Jane and Tatum, you guys would bring some amazing and good perspectives because you guys really do look traditions. There's a couple of ways to boil them down, right? You have cultural traditions, right? There's culture like, okay, we celebrate Thanksgiving or we celebrate things, of course, like Christmas. But that's cultural and it's our culture Today we'd say there's a lot of those. 4th of July is a big culture addition. We have religious traditions, right? You have things like, Well, let's start with Christmas or Easter or church. Those are traditions that are somewhat religious in nature. You guys agree? Then you have family traditions. Family traditions would be things that you guys like a weekly barbecue. So at least in I have a tradition that we started right away least that is, I think really important and that was date nights. Yeah. Our family tradition is we have a date night, you and I, before we had kids and we tried to do it every week. And sometimes it was, you know, it got expensive because we had first of all, we had no money. So even the.

 

Tatum [00:05:21] Tradition, we were serving students.

 

Chris [00:05:24] And so our tradition was actually more like just grabbing, you know, something in the refrigerator, you know, and taking it to a park and sitting there. Okay, that's a family tradition. Birthdays, birthdays, those were kind of like, I guess that could be cultural or family. They're both right.

 

Alisa [00:05:41] Were you celebrating?

 

Chris [00:05:43] Another one was you and I. We would individually take each child out on a date. Yeah. So I would date my kids, right? I would take him to, you know, it might be as simple. Like when they were younger, it was going it was going to Costco and getting free samples. And we first of all, they got fed and then we walked around the store and they were like, This is the best date ever, Dad. Like, I know. And and guess what? Then you get to go to the.

 

Tatum [00:06:11] 1970s.

 

Chris [00:06:13] Door and pick out one toy. But if you're really good, you can pick out two. It was like a two door.

 

Alisa [00:06:19] You can tell who the favorite parent was. That our.

 

Tatum [00:06:21] Family.

 

Chris [00:06:23] Now, that was the Lisa. Okay, so guys, we're here. Let's talk about I think family traditions are interesting, right? Cultural, religious. We kind of all, you know, tend to celebrate them. But families are unique and different. So what do you guys think? What let's start with this. What's your favorite family tradition? Do you have any that stand out to you? What do you think, Lisa? You want to start any family tradition that is like, this is really my favorite tradition that we do?

 

Alisa [00:06:54] Gosh. You know, I think Christmas is really one of my favorite traditions. The way we do that. I love that we we have a certain breakfast menu that we always have.

 

Tatum [00:07:09] Right?

 

Alisa [00:07:10] We usually do a church service on Christmas Eve together. And then Christmas morning, the youngest kid, we have a little snowman, silver Snowman bell and whoever actually whoever woke up first would get to ring the bell and like everybody else. And that meant has time to get a.

 

Chris [00:07:30] Blessing for.

 

Tatum [00:07:32] You. What you said to be able to see the sunrise. Yeah.

 

Alisa [00:07:37] And then so we would have a special breakfast and then Chris would always read the the Christmas story from the book of Luke and Jesus birth. And sometimes we had a cake, a happy birthday. Jesus came to really focus on the meaning of it. But and then when we would open presents instead of, you know, the kids just tearing into everything all at once, we would we open them one at a time so everybody would watch, you know, then it's your turn. And whoever plays Santa Claus, you know, distributes the gifts from under the tree. And it that changes everything.

 

Chris [00:08:18] Yeah. And that brings up an interesting thing about some traditions, like, is there such a thing for Christians as a Santa Claus? And when do we stop talking about something?

 

Tatum [00:08:26] Do you do.

 

Chris [00:08:28] You guys have a Santa Claus growing up or.

 

Tatum [00:08:30] Was it I mean, I did. I loved Santa and all the things, but I found out real quick.

 

Alisa [00:08:37] Okay. How did you find out Santa wasn't real?

 

Tatum [00:08:40] I just asked my mom I had wrinkling. Yeah.

 

Tatum [00:08:43] So you remember. How old are you?

 

Tatum [00:08:45] I was six.

 

Tatum [00:08:46] And how did feel?

 

Tatum [00:08:49] Gosh, I thought it was a little funny because every year on Christmas, my uncle would get on the roof. All of us cousins would do Christmas together. When we were little, he would get on the roof and say, Ho, ho, ho! And stoking.

 

Tatum [00:09:01] The bells. Yeah, But then one year.

 

Tatum [00:09:05] My cousins convinced me because I'm the oldest, to sneak out of the room to go look to see if Santa came. And it was like 4 a.m. And I remember seeing these little scooters under the tree. I was like, my gosh, he's here. But then it took your mind. I saw those scooters in the backyard. Yes.

 

Tatum [00:09:25] That's so funny. Yeah, it was.

 

Tatum [00:09:27] Up.

 

Tatum [00:09:28] So did you tell.

 

Tatum [00:09:29] I didn't tell anyone except my parents because I didn't want to ruin it for the.

 

Tatum [00:09:33] Four for you.

 

Chris [00:09:35] How about you? Santa was part of a tradition or not?

 

Jane [00:09:38] Yeah, for sure, But it was definitely like my mom made Christmas super special and, like, Santa was a part of it. But at the end of the day, it was like, this isn't this doesn't add up for, you know.

 

Tatum [00:09:53] I was very.

 

Jane [00:09:53] Severe. I just, like asked my mom, like, what? What is this? What's going on? So.

 

Alisa [00:09:58] And how old were you?

 

Jane [00:10:00] I don't know. Probably like early grade school, but my mom would still like, you know, put a present under the tree and be like, from Santa. But we all knew it was from her and.

 

Tatum [00:10:09] Yeah. And my grandpa.

 

Jane [00:10:11] He does the same thing. Like he'll go to like an antique shop or something or find something that makes him think of someone and like, I'll wrap it up and say from Santa, but we all know it's from him.

 

Tatum [00:10:20] So.

 

Jane [00:10:23] Parents in the car driving.

 

Tatum [00:10:24] Through this little way. Yeah. I think we better.

 

Alisa [00:10:28] Put a disclaimer. We talk about sale done here.

 

Tatum [00:10:33] And so you may or may.

 

Alisa [00:10:34] Not want to let your kids listen.

 

Chris [00:10:35] To it. And if the kids are listening now, Santa is off when you think about it. So they bring all kinds of things. He is like amazing what he brings and so all that.

 

Alisa [00:10:47] How old were you when you found out, Santa?

 

Chris [00:10:49] Well, you know, in college, I started processing the likelihood and I thought to myself, you know, I just don't see it. And so.

 

Tatum [00:10:59] He became.

 

Chris [00:11:00] The spirit. I became a psych.

 

Tatum [00:11:02] Professor in therapy. So we that of stuff.

 

Chris [00:11:05] I don't know. I was probably y'alls age, you know, it's just but it's still the you know what it was it was just the anticipation of the fun. Even if you kind of suspected it was still like, my gosh, just just the idea made it so cool.

 

Tatum [00:11:20] Yeah.

 

Alisa [00:11:21] I, I can remember being like, I went to see like 4 or 5 years old. I have a sister that's three years older. And so on Christmas Eve, inevitably she, we, we shared a bedroom and then inevitably she would be good going. Please listen.

 

Tatum [00:11:38] To to.

 

Alisa [00:11:39] Hear. I think I heard Santa and I don't know to this day if she really thought she heard Santa. She she was just kind of keeping the mystery of magic going for me since I was a little sister. But I can remember going to the window and like looking out the curtains and, you know, stuff and trying to see, you know, growing up, not only just our family, but growing up. One of the traditions that I loved was that our church always had a living nativity scene. And so it's freezing cold in West Texas. And you would be you know, the wind is blowing and the grass is all brown and dormant. But there was a nativity set up on the lawn in front of the church and they would have hot chocolate and, you know, different treats and things and music playing. And there was Mary Joseph and I don't know if there was I don't think there was a real baby. I can't remember that. That would have been awful cold. But anyway, but that was a sweet, sweet memory of Christmas growing up and laying in front of the stereo that my parents had. I mean, remember laying on the floor in the stereo and hearing Bing Crosby and Andy Williams and all those old, you know, singers, musicians. Yeah, that just made it magical. It really was.

 

Chris [00:13:01] Well, it is magical. And the seasons that we think about bring back such fond, warm memories. Right? We're young. What what is it then about? About relationships during holiday season that seem to say it's almost like it's a glue that starts to bond us? Would you say that traditions are those things that kind of contribute to that bond? Right. I mean, all of a sudden now you start to feel closer to the people you're around because you have a shared experience. Yeah. What do you think, Jane? It's that notion.

 

Jane [00:13:42] Yeah, I think that is such a good point because. Yeah, I don't know. I know what you were saying. Like that warm and fuzzy feeling and the nostalgia and the good memories. For me, it's like, you know, there's lights and cookies and, you know, all these things associated with it. But the foundation is just being with my family and making memories together and doing those things with each other. So at the core, it's family. And yeah, I just think it's so sweet.

 

Chris [00:14:12] You know, I wonder if that. Okay, so, so clearly there is, by the way, some interesting research that talks about the role traditions play in helping bond people, helping bond families and and those with more traditions that the greater the child feels kind of connected. And so. Tatum, for you, how was how do you remember this? Like it just made me feel closer to who I was to my family and things like that.

 

Tatum [00:14:43] So my family has a lot of traditions, especially at Christmas and all of my cousins on my mom's side live five minutes away from each other, at least in my hometown. So that was always a super special time, especially coming home from college. You don't see them often, but every Christmas Eve and every Christmas, we always do the exact same thing ever since I can remember. And that is candlelight service at church. We would come back and someone would read Jesus birth story from my great grandpa's Bible because he was super influential in all of our lives. So that's cool. And then all the grandkids, we get matching pajamas from grandma and they're always really.

 

Tatum [00:15:23] But that was like a bonding.

 

Tatum [00:15:24] Experience, you know, because I was like, What are we going to look like this year? Last year it was like Adam Sandler vibes.

 

Tatum [00:15:29] Was really good.

 

Chris [00:15:31] We should say. You still do it?

 

Tatum [00:15:33] Yeah.

 

Tatum [00:15:33] Even I was doing it. Yeah. Yes. Even now. And then we watch Prep and Landing, which is a silly Disney Plus movie. All that to say, though, that created such a bond for me and my eight cousins. I'm the oldest and the youngest is seven now. And just two months ago, as Chris was saying, when I got married, we had a whole cousin induction for Noah because the nine of us are so tight we had to like it. But you can come in now.

 

Tatum [00:16:01] We literally inducted him into our guns in private.

 

Chris [00:16:05] It involved pajamas.

 

Tatum [00:16:06] No, no, no.

 

Tatum [00:16:07] But my grandma is getting him an.

 

Tatum [00:16:08] Extra this year. Now you can join in.

 

Tatum [00:16:11] But it's been so sweet. You know me as all of them were involved our wedding in some way. And it was just special for us to have those memories growing up.

 

Chris [00:16:20] Yeah. Do you do you think it's because maybe kids in general feel a little bit like, okay, where do I belong? Who's my tribe? What does it mean? And traditions seem to almost reinforce that and and make it so that you feel part of something. And it could just be you and a grandparent or you and a mom or you and a bunch of cousins. But it does something does.

 

Alisa [00:16:46] And it does do that. And it really gives you an opportunity to build in your family and experience that sense of belonging. Yeah. You know what? This is who we are. This is what we do. And, you know, like, for us, where are the graces? This is what we do. And it can be very unique. Sometimes there's some overlap, very, you know, similar experiences. But then there may be some really unique experiences with your traditions. Like one thing we do when somebody has something to celebrate, like, you know, maybe somebody got a promotion at work or they got a really neat opportunity at school or maybe they lost their first tooth, you know, whatever it is, we have a blue celebration plate. It's and sometimes they're red, but it just says it's really pretty blue and white Writing says this is your day. Celebrate. And so our tradition, the graces do. And now we do it with our in-law kids because our two oldest kids are married. So now they've been inducted like Noah. And so when they have a special thing that goes on, we if we have a family dinner and we do the blue plate and it consists of this, everybody sitting at the table and I always walk out holding the blue plate and make the announcement. Dun dun dun dun dun. Today is a very special day because Chris got a promotion at work.

 

Tatum [00:18:18] And so.

 

Alisa [00:18:19] Chris, congratulations. Today is your day to celebrate. Then everybody claps and then they get to eat off the blue plate. But that's like, unique to us. And that's the thing is that I think traditions reinforce that sense of bonding, that emotional connection. It builds that sense of identity. This is our tribe. This is what we do. This is who we are. And it it really gives the family a chance to to establish their values. Right. Their philosophies of life, their values, like we do the church service, the Christmas Eve service, because focusing on the true meaning of Christmas, it's not just the presence, but really it's it's God coming to earth in a human body to redeem man. That's the focus. Or, you know, whatever it is, this is what we do. These are our values. Are we all served in a soup kitchen on Thanksgiving because we are about serving and this is what we do. This is who we are. That sense of unity, I think.

 

Chris [00:19:24] Yeah. Jane, why, when you think about this, for you growing up as well, and I'll ask, you know, Tatum and Lisa, this those traditions as a kid seem to stick in our memories, right? It's almost as if Christmas it's a wonderful day to think about, you know, being off and all of that. But they make you feel something about a family and they also can make you feel something about a lack of family. Right? It's a good way to remember. It's like a remembrance together. When you guys did this, did you have any other kind of traditions that helped cement that for you? You talked about, you know, how your mom or your grandpa would go buy things. What else stands out to you?

 

Jane [00:20:12] So many things. Christmas is so special to me and Thanksgiving and New Year's too. But yeah, I think something Christmas. Ivas similar to us. We would decorate cookies in the afternoon and then we would get dressed up and go to church and then we'd come home and have like appetizers and a charcuterie board and soup and then just play games and have cookies. And my mom would give us Christmas pajamas. My brother and I.

 

Tatum [00:20:46] Sang, for example, and I did that.

 

Alisa [00:20:48] Adam Sandler by.

 

Tatum [00:20:50] Now, she.

 

Tatum [00:20:51] Was actually cute.

 

Tatum [00:20:52] They were really cute. I was really good at getting nobody to do this.

 

Tatum [00:20:56] Podcast with my grandma.

 

Tatum [00:20:58] And I do not listen. And then.

 

Jane [00:21:01] We'll watch like The Muppet Christmas Carol, and then sometimes we'll do like a midnight service and then Christmas morning my I'll get up really early with my grandpa and we make an English plum pudding from his.

 

Tatum [00:21:14] Wow, something great.

 

Jane [00:21:16] Great grandma recipe. And we use the same pot that she used and it's really fun. And then we have tea. After a while it's cooking and then when it's time for everyone else to wake up, we play Bing Crosby really loudly and then we set up breakfast and all the things. So.

 

Chris [00:21:33] Yeah, I love that, you know? Okay, let me ask a short question. Christmas presents on Christmas Eve or Christmas morning?

 

Jane [00:21:41] Christmas morning. Christmas. Very similar to you guys. We do one like one Christmas circle. So when one person opens it and then it's the next person, so it takes like an hour.

 

Tatum [00:21:52] Or so to get there. It's so.

 

Jane [00:21:53] Fun.

 

Chris [00:21:54] So Christmas morning. Yeah. Christmas Eve or Christmas.

 

Tatum [00:21:57] Morning. Morning.

 

Chris [00:21:58] Christmas. Morning.

 

Tatum [00:21:59] Morning.

 

Chris [00:22:00] Morning. Yeah. Yeah we were morning. I think our kids were always when we started having kids, you know, we started to go okay you can open one on Christmas Eve, but.

 

Tatum [00:22:11] What.

 

Alisa [00:22:12] About when you were growing.

 

Chris [00:22:13] Up. Yeah. Mine, we it was Christmas morning. Same thing. Hey friends, exciting news are heart and soul. Marriage conferences for 2025 are now open for book.

 

Alisa [00:22:27] That's right. These transformative two day events are designed to strengthen marriages and bring couples closer together. So, hey, just a heads up. Our spring calendar is already filled up and we are booking into the fall. So don't wait.

 

Chris [00:22:42] Yeah. So if you're interested in hosting a conference at your church or if you'd like more information, we'd love to hear from you.

 

Alisa [00:22:48] Just email us at cmr@biola.edu And hey, don't miss this chance to invest in the marriages in your community.

 

Chris [00:22:57] Yeah. Let's make 2025 a year of stronger, healthier relationships. Hey, we can't wait to see you there. So let's try this then. When you think about these traditions and you think about whether it's Thanksgiving or Christmas or New Year's, there are ways in which that celebration we've been talking about does something about relationships. So the two of you, how is it to blend now sometimes in relationships like you started dating Noah and he clearly has different traditions because he's a different family and a person. Alisa When we started dating, we had different traditions. What's it like to blend them in? Is any difficulties in thinking through like, wait a minute, you do what? You have it.

 

Tatum [00:23:54] Easter? Yeah, this is kind of funny because this is my first time navigating like, this blending of faith.

 

Tatum [00:23:59] This will be the.

 

Chris [00:24:00] First Thanksgiving.

 

Tatum [00:24:01] And Christmas.

 

Chris [00:24:01] With no.

 

Tatum [00:24:02] So I'm having to split my time, right? We're doing Thanksgiving with my in-laws and Christmas with my family. And just an example. Thanksgiving. We always ran a turkey trot. I know we were.

 

Tatum [00:24:13] That family run from.

 

Chris [00:24:16] Turkey to how long? There's like a couple.

 

Tatum [00:24:18] Line.

 

Tatum [00:24:19] Three mile, three mile. We have to get up at like six, seven and drive out there. But it's fun. You see your community, you get to run.

 

Tatum [00:24:25] I do it like a.

 

Alisa [00:24:27] Like a run candidate. Before your wedding.

 

Tatum [00:24:30] Before our wedding, we put on A5K, so running's like my family's thing. So this year I'm spending it done here, right?

 

Chris [00:24:36] You know, I don't want to interrupt, but running wasn't uncommon in my family. It was usually, though, from the police. It was like all of a sudden I find myself running like, crud, how did I get in this? You know, I took a simple snowball at a car. It hits a core. I don't realize it's a cop car and I'm running you in.

 

Alisa [00:24:56] Just a simple fire to the glass window. A 7-Eleven.

 

Tatum [00:25:01] What? A fistfight. Yes. But. But, yeah.

 

Chris [00:25:05] Morning thinking. This is Thanksgiving. What am I do? Okay, so you ran for a good cause.

 

Tatum [00:25:11] So what then? Okay, so we ride.

 

Tatum [00:25:13] On Thanksgiving, but this year I'm here. No turkey trot. And I just get really sad because I'm like, This is tradition. I love tradition. We've done it every year.

 

Chris [00:25:21] I want you do it because, you're.

 

Tatum [00:25:23] Just not in my hometown. So I'll be down here. And so Noah came up with the idea, Why don't we host our own five K for us and for like, young married friends at the beach this year. So we're taking something old and something new, our new location and making a new tradition tribute to them.

 

Chris [00:25:41] I you know, I love that tater because that's exactly what it is. It's flexibility. But interestingly enough, now there's a new center of the where their traditions come from. You want to be with your family, you're going to connect with your cousins, but you know, are starting your cool thing. Yeah, I love that. Lisa Do you remember the blending of some of these?

 

Alisa [00:26:05] Yeah, I think the first year that we were married, the hardest thing for me to get used to was our very first Thanksgiving. We spent it with Chris's family in Colorado Christmas at my house.

 

Chris [00:26:19] About five years ago now.

 

Tatum [00:26:22] That we.

 

Alisa [00:26:22] Walked in and there was no turkey for Thanksgiving. He grew up in a predominantly Italian community and so we had lots of ravioli design.

 

Tatum [00:26:36] Yeah, And I know where the heck's in Turkey. You people.

 

Alisa [00:26:40] Don't have.

 

Tatum [00:26:40] Turkey is disappointment. I know.

 

Chris [00:26:43] I know. You know, growing up, we did have Turkey at times and sometimes it was just, you know, Italian food. I think for for some reason something must have broke or something the oven. But we just went to the old stand. But I really don't remember. You're right. But it wasn't uncommon for us to have either either one or usually a combination. And that.

 

Tatum [00:27:05] Was.

 

Alisa [00:27:06] Interesting. I would say the hardest part of that, though, was coming from a family where we had strong connection and and traditions. And then once we got married, there were some that we could key, but there were also some that I had to be willing to let go of, and he had to be willing to let.

 

Tatum [00:27:28] Go of it.

 

Alisa [00:27:31] Well, like what you do on Sunday are on Christmas morning. Yeah. Well, we can't do that if we're with your family in Colorado instead of with mine in Texas. And so for for quite a few years, it just there were times that Christmas didn't feel like Christmas because we weren't doing what I had done for 22 years. And so that took an adjustment. And there was even actually, I would say, a grieving period. Yeah. With that and and I think probably any newly married couple that is making that adjustment and like I love what you said Tatum about try you know you have the the old and the new the barn trying to fit new wine into old wine skins. What does that do? It burst the wine skin. And so trying to fit your old traditions, your what you're used to what I was used to into the same old wineskin that just didn't exist anymore. Because when you get married, your family changes and you know, and it will continue to change. That's the thing is just because we got married, that wasn't the only change Every time we added a new kid. And now we have in-law kids and things change because they are not always with us. And so we grieve the loss of not having our kids with us that we've had, you know, for 25, 27 years with us on those holidays. So we're we're still having to change and and navigate that.

 

Chris [00:29:06] So, yeah, so, so what happens that I think for anybody, our listeners or viewers, it really does for me what what's interesting when we start talking about blending or losing or dropping or bursting, there's, you know, old, you know, trying to fix and put something new. It's what emotions does it bring up as a kid? So let's start, Jane, when you think about holidays or you think about these traditions, it makes you feel things deeply. And that's why the loss of them is more than just one who cares about a run. It's just a rock. Go right around the block. It's not that big, but I think it means more, doesn't it? There's something attached to it. So give me some emotions that you attach to holidays. Probably the emotion of what? Like just comfort or peace or whatever. What what, what comes to mind when you think about.

 

Jane [00:30:04] Yeah, I think as I was reflecting on this topic and conversation, something that really came to mind was we had a lot of foundational aspects of our traditions, but things have shifted a lot over the last few years. So, you know, me making English plum pudding with my grandpa, that's been something that we've done in the last like 3 or 4 years. But as a kid, I mean, I moved my senior year of high school. My parents got divorced when I was 17, and then my brother went into the military. So right around that time, a lot of things shifted where I was moving out of my childhood home and just living with my mom, which is the best, but kind of having those grieving things that you that we used to do as a family. We used to have a Christmas Eve Eve party with all my mom's friends and it was like a core memory or, you know, my mom would get all her girlfriends and they'd go to, you know, Santa Barbara and shop all day. And it was a treat for them to just get to do that. And so those were aspects of things that we lost. But and then when we moved here, we got to I mean, we spent some Christmases with my grandparents, but not all of them. And now that as well, that's our new tradition. And so we we got to bring in, you know, it was an interesting conversation of my grandparents being like, well, this is what we make for breakfast. And then I'm like, No, no, this is what my mom makes her back.

 

Tatum [00:31:33] Yes.

 

Jane [00:31:34] But getting to like, combine that has been really sweet. And even like with her shopping day, like now, her friends will come and visit us and spend the weekend and getting to kind of adopt that. And also like with decorating, like our my mom would decorate our entire house. Every room had a tree. And so but that shifted now with just our different capacities now, you know, she was a stay at home mom and now she's working full time. And I was in college and all of that. And so now we just have one big tree, but we're very intentional about how we want to decorate it. And now it's very girly because it's just.

 

Tatum [00:32:11] The lock.

 

Jane [00:32:12] Girls in the house and it's so fun. But those things shift, but it's still special.

 

Chris [00:32:17] So so Janie, you bring up an interesting emotion and traditions and family and holidays bring out the joy, the excitement, the comfort, the peace. But it also brings out remembrance of what was. And what we'll never be and what we've lost. So how that played a big role for you, The grief. So divorced families, right? You now are maybe celebrating in two different homes in two different ways than what you're used to. And there's always someone that maybe we've lost in that year that we want to remember and think about. And so that's a very powerful emotion during some of these holidays, right? Yeah. This idea of pain, of a loss of a relationship or a tradition that we used to have and that could be hard, How do we navigate that in our relationships? One of the things I think that could help and you guys can correct me, but it's being able to use that to turn back to what's really important here. What what what do I what have I learned about this? Or how do I process and deal with this grief with these people I love? But now I'm we're grieving the loss of grandma or grieving the loss of Uncle John. We're grieving the loss of. But there's something powerful for Christians in some ways that says yet we know this life is not the end. We know we are. But dust, we know all pain will go away in heaven. But I think holidays bring up some things and bring up people in loss. Right? What do you guys with So so that's an interesting mix. I want to be joyful. I want to love and have fun and do these traditions, but it also can bring up some counter emotions.

 

Alisa [00:34:09] Yeah, not that I think that's a good point that you made that you can have two opposite feelings that seem to conflict the joy of the holiday, the joy of your family and traditions, and you experience the grief of maybe some loss of a family member or friend or something that that we've all kind of experienced in one form or another, and that both of those can be true at the same time. And so we're joyful and we grieve. So just because you're one doesn't mean you're not or you can't be the other. And I think it's important to acknowledge that loss or that grief and and talk about it. And, you know, you may not dwell on it the whole day, but I think it's important to acknowledge that, I missed that person. They would have loved this. And I even read just recently about when in acknowledging the loss of a family member, whether it's extended or, you know, closer that they're a rosemary is the symbol of remembrance. And so they lost I think they lost a grandparent. And so they actually see a place setting and leave it empty at the table with a sprig of rosemary on that in remembrance of their loved one that just died. And I thought, you know, you may not want to do that every year, but at least that first year that they're missing. I know you have a cousin that you just lost that was really close to you. Tatum and Chris just lost a brother about two months ago. And I know that this coming this Thanksgiving holiday, this Christmas is going to be particularly tough, especially for his mom who lost a child. And so I could see honoring her and acknowledging her and by acknowledging that brother with that place setting, even though we might not have celebrated with him recently in an active part of our lives because we live far apart. But I could see honoring them this holiday and.

 

Chris [00:36:20] And maybe some tangible, concrete way and maybe just in just acknowledging and talking about it. But I love how you said we can hold these two things together and they can both be true and attainable. You'll be facing this as well. And because your cousins are so close and you all did everything together and you could hold both, right? I mean, and I think this is really I mean, it's it's life. It's constantly times of joy and times of sadness. There's time to weep, right? And there's a time to laugh. There's there's a time to celebrate and and holidays bring that out because we're used to celebrating. Right. And it feels hard to do. But I think what it does is it also can be strengthening because we start to recognize the limits of our time on earth. And it's like, you know what? I want to make the best of this and I want to show and and enjoy kindness with my family, my friends, my traditions. Even though I grieve this, it's like we really want to invest. So what are some final thoughts that you guys have when it comes to when we deal with traditions and think about here's something. You want to leave the listeners? Right. So. So just be thinking about that. What's one final thought about traditions and holidays when it comes to relationships? And I'll just say this, I think it's easy to take an early tradition when we're young and it could be rather selfish. And meaning like this right now, I get things on Christmas. People give me gifts. I used to give some, of course, didn't have a lot of money, you know, may have been handmade, but there was a almost a transition that went from a receive, receive, receive on some of these times to giving to doing. And I think it really helped me to start to see what does it mean to encourage someone else's dreams or holiday experience. You know that Christmas morning, what it means to be more selfless? It's hard because, you know, I could still think about times. I don't know if you guys had this where this Christmas gift I opened as a kid was like, That's not what I wanted. If you ever.

 

Tatum [00:38:39] Decided looking at Christmas, do you really.

 

Chris [00:38:42] Know? Have you ever can you remember a gift? And you're like, No, I didn't want that. Well, I think that I think the pajama thing was cool, but there are probably a times where it was kind of selfish, wasn't it? I don't know. I know I was. And then switching and and so I would suggest for people in relationships. Lisa, you said this earlier, it's about adapting and giving, especially if you're blending relationships this Christmas. It's about going, you know, I want to make this good for others. I want to feel and give and receive as much, you know. But the giving part can be increased a little bit more. And so I would suggest for our listeners, work on this, What role can you play in bringing somebody closer to a God that we serve? So at Thanksgiving, what can I do to express gratitude to what God has done, the good things He's done, and make someone feel that at Christmas? What what can I do more to to encourage or enhance or increase this person's closeness to our savior? And those are some things, you know, maybe broad or big. But anyway, I think about that. What do you guys have any final hints or tips or thoughts?

 

Tatum [00:40:03] I think just for people who the season looks a little crazy or a little different, if it's like traditions are inconsistent now, something comforting for me is that Jesus is constant. He he's never going to change. Even if your life looks crazy, He is not. And that's something I've just been holding on to. Even something so silly as I don't get to run a turkey trot with my family. Jesus is the same and I get to rejoice in him all the same every day. So that's just been really comforting for myself.

 

Chris [00:40:32] I love what a great thought. Lisa, what do you have for us? You have a thought and then we'll ask Jane something. Your final thought on letting go.

 

Tatum [00:40:41] You have some, Jane?

 

Jane [00:40:43] Yeah, I have a few random last thoughts, but yeah, I love what you said, Tatum, because yeah, I think that's so relatable for people because things change, things feel crazy. But understanding why we celebrate and, you know, why that idea of like a thrill of hope, the weary world rejoices, you know, where we feel that weariness and we're reminded of, this is what we're celebrating, that, you know, our our salvation and Jesus and our are what our lives now look like as followers of Jesus in the ways he's transformed our lives and what the meaning of Christ's birth means for us and a sacrifice on the cross and on all those things. And it really just puts things in perspective when it's like, Yeah, when I burnt the cookies, like, you know, and it's like, you know, so, yeah, like grounding yourself a little bit and the foundation, the truth. But some other thoughts I had was, you know, the last few years have looked a little different for moving into a new home and, you know, new jobs. Finances look different being in college and, you know, finals week being right around Christmas, all of these things. I think it's important for you to take a moment to think about this, the holidays and think about your current season, what year in your capacity, whether that's just your schedule or, you know, your finances or, you know, whatever it may be and kind of writing down what are my traditions? And asking yourself, well, if one of these have. To go, Which one would I miss the most and making sure that that's a priority. And it's okay if things change. You know, Christmas gifts is a huge deal for us because we're reminded of, you know, obviously the gift of Jesus in our lives. But we also just love getting to, you know, intentionally buy a gift for a family member. And so this year, you know, we people in my family have moved. They've got a new jobs. They have gotten cars or, you know, home repairs and our things look different. So now we're we're drawing names. We've never done that before. You know, we're we're shifting out a little bit. But that that, you know, foundation of what we love to do is still happening. It's just changing, you know, And my mom's work schedule has changed. And so our holiday hours have now shifted to what they're normally are. But yeah, just going by your season where it's like, yeah, my finances are different. You know, for college students who are listening, it may look different for you and that's okay. You know, drive around with some friends and look at lights or put on your favorite movie and be intentional about it. Look at your calendar and say, I want to have bake cookies with this friend on this day and we're going to schedule ahead of time. Or, you know, I really want to make sure that I watch Christmas movies. So we're going to write down the ones we want, put them in a hat and draw one out. So just being intentional about those things and prioritizing it and giving yourself grace and permission that it looks different. And also, you know, you don't have to wait for traditions. You don't have to wait for you to have the dream job or to be married or to have your own family or, you know, whatever. You can start doing it right and you are worthy of having sweet traditions in your life and you're worthy of getting to celebrate the true meaning of Christmas or the holidays or the new year. So yeah.

 

Chris [00:44:21] I love that. Jane That's so cool. You don't have to wait. You can start now. And even during this Thanksgiving, one of the things you could do right now is like, I think you said, you can just write down 1 or 2 things that you're grateful for or if you want to change radically the way you experience holidays, I would suggest you do what Jane just said. Even just writing down one thing you're grateful for every day this season. I'm grateful that, you know, Starbucks is open until whenever. And unfortunately, I'm not really grateful for Starbucks because I don't drink it, but at least it does B and C, it's expensive and it let's just make coffee at home. How about that? I'd be grateful for that. But if you just found one thing that you're grateful for and you write it down, that's kind of like write down in the on the calendar, set up a schedule with the friend. I love it. Let's see, Lisa, One thing that you want to think about as the end of like something you just want to share when it comes to this idea of holidays, traditions, family.

 

Alisa [00:45:23] Well, I. I love what you were saying about, you know, something that you love, that you're grateful for, something that you appreciate about someone. I think one of the most memorable things is not a tradition. We did it one time, but it's one that all of our kids remember. And this was probably about 6 or 7 years ago. We we were offered a mountain cabin. It would by a conference center where I think we had spoken at their marriage retreat.

 

Chris [00:45:56] Shout out to Hume Lake.

 

Tatum [00:45:59] With you you date.

 

Chris [00:46:00] Of you know.

 

Tatum [00:46:01] Yeah it was wonderful.

 

Alisa [00:46:02] And so they let us have a a big beautiful cabin that sleep like 14 people. So at Christmas. So my family came out and my mom, my dad, my sister, her two kids, we had our two kids and their spouses that are married and then our youngest is still at home. And that one of the things that we did that was so fun is we went on Christmas Eve, we went down the mountain into town and ate in a cheap hole in the wall Mexican food place. It was awesome. And then Chris and I gave every person, I don't know, $15. I think we gave everybody $15. And then we drove to Big Lots and before we drove to Big lots, we drew names out of a hat. And so we went to Big Lots. And you had to buy a gift, a secret Santa gift for the person whose name you drew with $15. And so, you know, we really it was Christmas Eve. We took up the whole store. There was nobody in there but our family. And everybody's like, you know, laughing and dodging in between aisles because you're trying to hide what you're picking up and trying to see if you can see, you know, who's buying what and hiding it. But then so we got it. And everybody has their gift and it's in the big lots bag, right? Still in the big lots bag, not gift wrapped or anything. And so we got back home that night and in front of the fireplace, we had hot chocolate, coffee, tea, whatever you want to. And in a circle, we took turns. And when it was your turn and let's say I drew your name, Jane. So I would say, okay, the person whose name I drew and then I would share something we all had to share, something that we valued or appreciated or admired about them, something that we were grateful for, for that person. And then we say, So I this is why I would love, admire, appreciate, Jane and tell all about her. And then I was I and my person is Jane. And so then I would give up and I would give them the gift and everybody would watch what. And it was I mean, one was a pink cellophane Christmas tree, but that was for our daughter in law who loves pink. So it was perfect. I mean, there were house slippers. There were, you know, gloves. I mean, it could have been anything. But the thing that everybody remembered was the time. We don't even remember what we got. But it was the sitting around and sharing and hearing what someone loved or valued or appreciate about you that you probably had no idea about. And so it just felt so loving, so bonding, so positive. All of us remember. I mean, now we have that really special memory of I remember when we had Christmas, that huge lake, and it was that part and it was more meaningful than I couldn't tell you any other Christmas gift that I got that year. I couldn't tell you probably what I got last year, but the time around the table, laughing, good, sharing, loving, enjoying each other. That's what we remember. That's what I look forward to.

 

Chris [00:49:19] Yeah, that's great. Great memory. Liz. I love that. You know, it brings to mind now 15 back then is like giving 100 out today. You know, right now.

 

Tatum [00:49:31] The gift that keeps on going. Well listen. And thinking.

 

Chris [00:49:33] About traditions.

 

Tatum [00:49:34] Yeah.

 

Chris [00:49:35] Talking about traditions, talking about family and and then just thinking about the holidays. What it what a special time for bonding, strengthening and uplifting one another and knowing the reasons for the seasons. Right. Gratitude. I love that to be called Gratitude Day. It's the same thing. What are we going for? And then Christmas, you know, the birth of our savior. So yeah, thanks for sharing these wonderful ideas and thoughts and coming up with this idea. You guys have some great thoughts, ideas.

 

Alisa [00:50:06] So we are you know what? We also have a link. We will link in the show notes. We will link to a couple of blogs that have to do with with traditions like one is 23 really great ideas for your Christmas traditions. And I actually gleaned that from 23 of my friends and it ranges all the way down from, you know, being single, being a kid to traditions with preschoolers, grade schoolers, teens, and then your adult kids. And then when maybe even when you have an empty nest. And so we'll link to that. But they had some really great idea. Yeah.

 

Chris [00:50:45] Tatum You guys put that together. It was.

 

Tatum [00:50:48] Like.

 

Chris [00:50:48] How many were on this list?

 

Tatum [00:50:50] my goodness. There's probably 20 plus resources on this PDF resource will link for you in the shownotes and look at all our old.

 

Chris [00:50:57] Blogs and thanks for putting all that together. And I was surprised at how.

 

Tatum [00:51:02] Many states.

 

Tatum [00:51:02] Are writing.

 

Chris [00:51:04] Blogs and things are out there. Well, both of you, we love having you on the team. I'm grateful for the both of you. This is awesome. Your answers, your presence, your joy that you bring to the CMA is awesome. Thank you, Jane, for working with us.

 

Tatum [00:51:19] Yeah, it's.

 

Chris [00:51:19] Good to have you. Even though I misspell your name all the time, I still don't know if it ends its luck. I don't know if it ends with an IT or not. I just don't know. I'm not going to worry about it and tell them I will never pronounce your last name. I'm just going to call you Tatum. Noah's better half. That's the best way to do it. Yeah. Shout out to Darla.

 

Tatum [00:51:38] And Lisa before.

 

Alisa [00:51:39] We go. We just want to say thank you for listening. Thank you for watching this video. We'd love it if you shared it with some friends. Write us, give us a really good five star rating. But most of all, we just want to wish you happy Thanksgiving. Merry Christmas. Happy New Year. Whatever. You seem to be watching this, but we hope it's a really meaningful holiday for you, for your family, too. So from the CMA team, from the Art of Relationships. Happy holidays. Merry Christmas. We really appreciate.

 

Tatum [00:52:12] You. But yes.

 

Alisa [00:52:14] I'm.

 

Mandy [00:52:18] We're very glad you joined us for today's podcast. For more resources on marriage and healthy relationships, please visit our website at cmr.biola.edu. We'll see you next time on The Art of Relationships.