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Listener Q&A

Dr. Chris and Alisa Grace pose for the cover of The Art of Relationships Podcast.

In this week's episode, Chris and Tim answer some of your questions and share helpful, Christ-centered insights on dating, cohabitation, and more.

Tim Muehlhoff:    Thank you for joining us for another Art of Relationships podcast. In each episode, we work hard to bring you the latest research in psychology and communication theory to help you develop healthy relationships. We also have a lot of fun in the process ready to get started. Let's do it.

Chris Grace:    Well. It's good to have you at another podcast. The Art of Relationships podcast have been around now for Tim, I don't know how many years?

Tim Muehlhoff:    June 15, '20. How long has it been?

Chris Grace:    Maybe five, six years.

Tim Muehlhoff:    No. Five, six years?

Chris Grace:    Maybe less.

Tim Muehlhoff:    I think last time I was going to say three. We'll have to find out.

Chris Grace:    Yeah. The first listener who gets it correct can write it in and get a free book from you signed by-

Tim Muehlhoff:    Done, done.

Chris Grace:    Okay. And if they've listened to all of them, they get a whole series. Tim, we get lots of questions here on our podcast and at our website, People writing in asking questions and then just you and I travel a lot, especially pre pandemic days. But even now we go around and share our stories, but also share different advice, different skills on relationships, whether it's singleness, whether it's dating and marriage, but Tim, we get questions all of the time. And so why don't we do this? Why don't we just spend this podcast answering some questions that you get and then I get, and we'll just start. How about that?

Tim Muehlhoff:    And let me just say this to listeners. We do not know what each other's questions are.

Chris Grace:    That's right.

Tim Muehlhoff:    So Chris is going to present a couple that he always gets and I'm going to present a couple that we tend to get. And then we'll just comment on each other's answers.

Chris Grace:    Actually, Tim, I'll let you go first. How about that?

Tim Muehlhoff:    Okay, Chris, here's number one. "Is it possible I married the wrong person?"

Chris Grace:    I knew you were going to ask that. I knew it.

Tim Muehlhoff:    We get that all the time.

Chris Grace:    I knew you were going to ask that.

Tim Muehlhoff:    Typically a woman will say, "Now having seen you, Tim, is it possible I settled for..." No, but Chris, we get that all the time.

Chris Grace:    Yeah, we do. And I think at the end of the day, given the shortness of our ability to respond, I think we would answer it the same way. I don't know, I could be very wrong, but here we go. I think if someone asked me that question, I would say, while in our sinful nature we can sometimes make bad choices, bad decisions, including being with somebody that we were never intended to be with. And I don't say that in a deep philosophical or Calvinistic Armenian way that we weren't supposed to be. I just say in a way that, sometimes we make choices and they're bad choices. And sometimes we have couples that we talk with that it's clear, they are just not compatible and should have never been together. Now at that point, what do you do? You've made a decision, it's possible you've made the wrong decision and you married the wrong person, it does not excuse us from a vow and a commitment that we had made.

    And I guess Tim, I would say that once a vowel in a commitment is made and you marry somebody, one of the things we can do as humans is to live up to that vow and that commitment and we honor it. And we do make the best of a situation that may not be in any way ideal. But Tim, it's a tough question. So I would say this, yes, it's definitely possible that we've all made choices that in retrospect were probably wrong choices. But we honor our word and we stay committed to something and to someone in the good and in the bad times for rich or for poor. And then I think you just simply go at that and you honor that commitment and I think God honors that, but that's just a short answer, how do answer?

Tim Muehlhoff:    Yeah, we're on the same page. I would say this, that we actually are pretty certain, if you married a non-Christian, if you're a follower of Christ and you married a non-Christian, then I would say, biblically, you married somebody that God would not... The spirit wasn't leading you to marry that person. Now let's say you do it. Well, one of the great things about God is he redeems things. So it's not that we just, "Okay, well, I made a commitment. Okay, now I'm going to gut it out." God is saying, "I can take that relationship and I can redeem it. I can make it serve my purposes and you can actually experience happiness, joy, flourishing." So God isn't saying, "Yeah, sorry. You all blew it. Now just suck it up and live out the rest of your life." I think God is saying I can redeem anything and I can redeem this relationship.

Chris Grace:    Man, Tim, I think that's so good. And I wonder if the idea of redemption and what that means when you say God can redeem anything. I don't know if we understand that word a lot. I'll be honest with you. And what does it mean that God can take something that in one respect looks so bad, so broken, so messed up and use it in a way, not just maybe in a ministry way for other people, but use it in my own life to bring me closer to God. And if I don't find a closeness to God through this, I'm missing something that God could have very well-intended to draw me to Him.

Tim Muehlhoff:    Yeah. And we're a bad judge of the state of our marriage. Noreen, my wife came across this study that couples were asked, what's the state of your marriage? And couples that said, "We are hopeless." Five years later, based on the study, when the couples committed to therapy, committed to... I forget what they were reading a book together and trying to apply the book on marriage. That I think it was something Chris, like 40%, five years later said, "We're in a good place."

Chris Grace:    Yeah. I think Tim, there's another study, very similar to that done by our colleagues over at PREPARE/ENRICH. And they did the same thing they followed couples that were struggling all of these couples. And then at the end of this one year time period, half the couples, 40, 50% were actually in a very good place and the other half were not. And they asked what was the difference? And they found interesting if you remember this one study found that it was a difference of about five hours a week, that couples were able to start... And Tim, what they did is they did exactly what you said. They started doing work together, whether it was therapy, date nights, reading books together. And they actually found that that was the main difference between those that were thriving and those that were still striving.

Tim Muehlhoff:    Yeah. Most of the area of psychology is overrated. But one aspect Chris that I think is fascinating is positive psychology. And I remember Ed Wheat wrote a book called Love Life and he answered the question, what do you do if you don't love the person anymore? And Chris what he's suggesting was, it's so brilliant. He said, "I want you just to say audibly once a day, doesn't even need to be to your spouse. I just want you to say audibly once a day, 'I love this person.'" And then write down some reasons why that was true at one point or why it might be true. And he argued that in six to eight months, feelings started to change towards that person.

Chris Grace:    That is definitely social psychology and it's this, someone was asking, in fact the premier social psychologist who studied in the area of attitudes and behavior was asked that very question or a similar question. And he said, act as if you do and then wait to see that you're... And what usually happens is that your heart, your attitudes tend to follow. So they tend to follow your behavior. So if you were in love, what's one thing you could do. Or if you were trying to re-ignite something, how would you act? Well you might get up and make them breakfast in the morning or you might wash their car, you might greet them at the door with a hello. So one couple came to us, Tim. They were a young, married couple, and they asked Alisa and I, "Man, we are having a hard time. The passion that we once felt is clearly no longer there."

    This couple hadn't been married, but a couple of years now and they were feeling as if they just couldn't find that reigniting their love for each other and it had gone stale. And so they had asked what do we do? Or what's an option. I remember my wife saying, "Greet him at the door. Whoever comes home first, who's ever there waiting, greet that person at the door and give them a hug and say, 'I miss you.'" And we asked about a week later, how it was going. And one of those spouses just said it's really hard, it feels like it's just not authentic. And we just said, "Stick with it." And they did. And they would keep going and eventually they found out that they really started to miss the person. And when they came home, they started to get excited. And so Tim one option, it doesn't work for everything, but our attitudes, our hearts sometimes follow our behavior.

Tim Muehlhoff:    I love that. And that's positive psychology.

Chris Grace:    It is.

Tim Muehlhoff:    Okay. Good.

Chris Grace:    It's exactly. So Tim, let's try another one that I'll start with a couple has been living separated lives and they have no idea how to reconnect. They are simply no longer living connected in any way. They don't do things together. It's not like they're hostile with each other, they just simply don't live together in any way sense or... And so the question is, Tim, I think, how do they... They've come up and asked us, "What do we do? It's not like we hate each other. It's not like we're yelling and scream at each other. We just simply co-exist. We're like roommates barely, that never really communicate. We don't know what to do."

Tim Muehlhoff:    Yeah. We get that one a lot too. I'm going to use two sources, one is the Bible and one's Rolling Stone Magazine. Okay, Chris. I read an article... Chris. I don't know how long, maybe 20 years ago, here's the title of that Rolling Stone article, Bruce Springsteen Saved Our Marriage. And you know what it was about, it was about a guy who was an absolute nut when it came to Bruce Springsteen. He went to all the concerts, had all of his music and always went with another friend who was a Bruce Springsteen nut as well. Well, this one friend had to cancel last minute. We're talking the day of the concert and the friend calls up and says, "Man, I just can't make it." The wife goes, "Well, I'll go." And he goes, "What? No." She says, "No I'll go. I'll go. I'll go. Why waste the ticket?" She goes, isn't crazy about it, but sees how much he loves it.

    And you know what she does next Christmas she gets him a collection of Bruce Springsteen, CDs, DVDs, and slowly starts to like Bruce Springsteen now not love Bruce Springsteen like her husband. But to see how much he enjoyed it and what he got out of it and the experience and the community is now... He still does a bunch of concerts on his own, she doesn't want to do all that, but there's about five or six that she goes to. And now they have something that they both enjoy. Okay, that's Rolling Stone Magazine. I would say to a Christian couple, "What does Jesus say? Seek first, the kingdom of God." So I can grant you that there might be a couple, they just don't have natural interests that connect with each other, but they both ought to be about furthering God's kingdom.

    So you can have your interests, I can have mine, but what are the things were actively doing as a couple to further God's kingdom then let's focus on that. So I do think part of being selfless, what Paul talks about is I look at what Noreen loves and I just don't care. Chris, the British baking challenge.

Chris Grace:    Shows.

Tim Muehlhoff:    What is that thing called?

Chris Grace:    I have no idea.

Tim Muehlhoff:    My wife loves it. And I sit down and watch it with her. Now, in fairness, my wife watches the Ultimate Fighting Championship with me because of my love of martial arts. So I think part of it is you just say, "Listen, this means a lot to them. I'm entering this person's world. Does it float my boat, not necessarily, but I'm going to do it because of how much they enjoy it.

Chris Grace:    Tim, I think that's really good. I think there's just this notion sometimes that we can become, so self-absorbed in our own world, our own ways. And ultimately Tim, I think to reach out to another person in another way that lifts them up. But Tim, the ability to just participate in just the smallest thing. So if I would just say to this couple, find some thing that you can point to, that you can admire, that you can praise, that you can recognize. Or some way that you can sit down with them during a TV program that you just despise, or maybe don't like, and enjoy it with them. I think it's the beginning of how you start a relationship again and reignite it. It's a tough one and there are a lot of couples like that so Tim.

Tim Muehlhoff:    All right. I got another one. All right, Chris. So, hey, the fun thing is Noreen and I've been speaking for FamilyLife marriage conferences for, Chris, I want to say 25 years. I had hair, long hair, Chris. And the fun thing is Chris and Alisa are now our brand new FamilyLife speakers. So we do something at our conferences for just the pre-marrieds. Chris, here's the number one question I get at these pre-married things. "Doesn't living together just make sense. We are thinking about committing the rest of our lives, we've never lived together, so we don't know what it's like. So what is so wrong with living together and just seeing if we're a good fit being with each other 24/7, what in the world is wrong with that? It just seems to make a whole lot of sense."

Chris Grace:    Boy, we get that question a lot too. And thanks for asking that, Tim.

Tim Muehlhoff:    Well, we're done. Look at the time.

Chris Grace:    You know what, we just ran out. Well, let me just say University of Denver guy named Scott Stanley did some research in which he found that couples that were faithful, and had always been faithful to this person that they were engaged to now and about to get married. They didn't stray, they hadn't had other relationships in which they've lived with somebody. And it's now the one person that they've committed to and that they have stayed true to and they're about to get married. He had found that those couples that have in this case premarital sex actually did as well as couples that saved their sexual relationship for marriage, when it came to the quality of their marriage and when it came to most measures of how well they're doing but there's the caveats. These couples would have been very faithful to one partner, they had not had a history of sleeping with other people and this would have been their first or I don't know first relationship necessarily, but only their first sexual relationship.

    So that's the good news. I think it was surprising in the sense that couples that had premarital sex, but remained faithful and committed to one and didn't have a track record actually showed good quality marriages. So I think there's hope out there for these couples, Tim, that say... Because a lot of them worry about this shame and guilt that they've fallen and messed up. They know they want to get married, I think that's the hopeful news. So all that to say, there's hope out there. Now, if you do have a track record, I would challenge these individuals. If you have a track record of a sexual history, a past in which there's one or more or multiple partners and those relationships have ended. You're bringing bringing in a whole lot of stuff to this relationship. I would say Tim, at that point, the research has shown that your success in marriage is just not as high.

    Your quality of marriage in the future is actually lower than these other two couples. Those that have maintained their relationship, saved sex for marriage and those that were committed just to the one person. So there by most measures, and this was done over a long year, a number of years of a study that demonstrated again, the importance of dealing with history, with the debris in the relationship that clog up God's blessings coming in. But the reason is, is because sex is such a powerful thing, that it does something to us in our brains. It causes a uniting and a connecting and you have to almost deal with that a head time. Short answer, I would just say, I would really challenge them with the sexual history to make a commitment to this person that they will deal with that issue, deal with the previous relationships that they've had and make a commitment to not live together. Because just living together, it's not going to be a panacea. It's not going to give them any advantage whatsoever, in fact, it's going to be more harmful than good.

Tim Muehlhoff:    Yeah. Wow. That's very interesting Chris. Well, one, let's be careful how quickly we judge couples who live together. Don't assume they're just doing away with traditional marriage. Some of them are in deep financial hardship, they simply cannot make it. So they move together. Sometimes there's children involved, so we need to be a little compassionate. Here's what I would say to these couples, let's say, please hear me listeners when I say this is hypothetical. Let's say that living together actually empirically showed it was phenomenal. Like having premarital sex ahead of marriage, living together for a year or two actually showed that this was great precursor to a really happy healthy marriage. This is what I say to those couples. Even if that's the case, the number one issue you're going to wrestle with the rest of your life is, is God Lord of this marriage.

    That is a huge issue. So even if empirically the evidence seemed to show God is stepping in, I think this is really hard to argue against when you go to 1st Thessalonians when you go to Song of Solomon. Reserve marriage for the wedding bed, sex for the wedding bed. So I think when a couple is going to have to fundamentally ask is, does God know better than we are even when I don't fully even understand it, but God is saying, "No, I get sex more than you do. I created it. And you need to trust me." It is in the marriage context in which it flourishes and becomes all that it is. So, Chris, I think in some ways it's a litmus test, is God Lord of this relationship. And I'm going to go against my natural inclination and maybe even research, but it is God saying, "Hey, listen, this is reserved for the marriage bed. Trust me."

Chris Grace:    No, it's good. It's a good answer. When especially today, couples are just... I think Tim our sexualized culture, which has been around for 40 years now and longer. But the ability to just now deal with pressures, whether they're economical and financial or whether they're just relational, the need to live together have sex beforehand is probably greater than it's ever been but you're right. The ability for us to walk with and do what God has asked us is He Lord of this relationship. And am I willing to submit to that? It's great advice.

Tim Muehlhoff:    And every parent knows that, there just comes a time where your child doesn't get it. They just don't... "Why can't I do this? Why can't I buy this? Why can't I do this? Why can't I commit to this?" And it's like, "Hey, listen, trust me. I'm your dad, I love you. And I'm looking out for your best interest. Do you trust me?" And I get that it's hard for a child sometimes to say that, I think that's what we need to do is that we have a heavenly Father who is looking out for us emotionally, physically, spiritually, psychologically, and understands the implications of sex in ways that we just don't get. And I think it is an issue of trust.

Chris Grace:    All right, Tim, here's another question.

Tim Muehlhoff:    Man, I thought that we were done.

Chris Grace:    No. We're not done.

Tim Muehlhoff:    You're slipping one more in.

Chris Grace:    Yeah, let's get it in. And this is in the area of singleness. We get this question when we talk with singles, they fear their lack of ability to connect to somebody else, to get married or to find that special person, Tim makes them begin to feel like they are missing out on something and they just are in pain. And what do you say to the person in pain? Who says, "I so much want to get married? It's so important to me. And I just simply cannot find the right person and I date and I find them, but I always find something wrong with them. And then we end up breaking up." And this pattern for them deals with, they find a person they date for a while something bothers them in the, in the other person's personality. And then the question comes up, "Am I being too picky? Am I just not able to commit to somebody. I really want to be there, but I just haven't found anybody that meets all of the things that I'm looking for."

Tim Muehlhoff:    You had to slip that in. That's the one you got in at the bell. Well, let me... What a good question. Okay. I'm going to use an illustration of one of my oldest friends. Chris, we've been friends for over 30 years. Their marriage is rock solid. He actually speaks for FamilyLife, I won't mention his name. He was dating a woman and could not pull the trigger to get engaged. He couldn't do it, for a multitude of reasons. And I'll commend him for this, he's a great guy. He sat down and a bunch of his male friends and said, "Tell me about marriage. Tell me what it's like. What do I need to..." And it was a great way to speak into his life, Chris, to say, "Okay, dude, here's the priorities. Here is the priorities of what you need to have. Because this is a long haul and it's harder than what you can imagine. And here's what I would not skimp on. And there's three of them, boom, boom, boom." And he heard, and then walked away and said, "I'm an idiot. She meets those. I'm dealing with other stuff."

    And he committed to her. So Chris, I think it's good for a person who's struggling... I think it's good to sit down with somebody who's ahead of you and to say, "Okay, I'm freaking out here. It's hard for me to pull the trigger. Maybe my criteria is messed up. So would you analyze my criteria? And what would you speak into my criteria if you were creating it?" And I think it's good that he pulled together a group of people to talk to him about that. But man, commitment's hard and your background's going to affect you. Bad experiences affect you, the relationship with your parents. There's a lot of things that makes it hard and it's good to get outside perspective.

Chris Grace:    I like the outside perspective idea. It'd be awesome if you could do a list yourself of things you're looking for in a spouse, and then things that are important to you. I'm sure most people have done if not they have something pretty readily available. But then they ask somebody else, "Hey, what do you think would be important for me? You know me, you know what I'm like, you know what's important." And Tim, I think for the single people that are dealing with this issue, that aren't either finding that right person or they're having a struggle with this. I think your idea and at least your point of having them recognize what are they seeing as important and is it really that important? So kindness has got to be on the top of a lot of people's list. Humility. "They're fun to talk to, I laugh with them."

    All of those things you draw a line and say those are the four or five things. They love Jesus, they're kind, we have fun together and we laugh. Is it really then that important that this other person just believes something very different than I do about let's say an issue. Or they're not clean and I have a hard time with somebody who's just a slob and this person doesn't show much consideration for that. Or they're rude to other people sometimes and now all of these things hit, but now I find that they are not nice to people. They yell at people that maybe don't do things well in a restaurant. And they cringe at that and they think is the relationship something that I should continue to pour into. And I guess Tim, you really have to draw a line and say, what are those top issues? That rudeness might very well be that they're not kind as you thought. And you might eventually find yourself at the other end of that.

Tim Muehlhoff:    Or sarcastic sense of humor.

Chris Grace:    Yeah. Well, and then that's right. So do you deal with the sarcastic person and should that be above the line or below the line. And this where I think people that are struggling out there not finding somebody maybe dealing with that line issue. And things change we can be different, right Tim?

Tim Muehlhoff:    I mean, I remember going in with the... I was pretty sarcastic and early on with humor and liked to tease. I had to realize pretty quickly that while I could tease, it was hard for if Alisa teased to me and I would go, "Whoa, where's that coming from?" And then I started to realize humor that's something you can learn and change, but it's very important that you don't step in to something that could hurt you in the long run and you have to just know where that line is.

Chris Grace:    Okay, let's close with this. You just brought something to mind. So I was asked to speak to a guy who was just about to get engaged. He was going to pull the trigger, but wanted to speak with me. I just want to check my math, which is awesome. Chris is about a 45 minute-

Tim Muehlhoff:    Check my math.

Chris Grace:    Got to be an engineer.

Tim Muehlhoff:    Check my math. It was about a 40 minute conversation, Chris, I promise you we were at the 43rd minute. I was hanging up this phone saying, "Dude, you're good, man. This sounds great." He made a comment that just hit me. And he said something like, "She's not going to stop guys in the street, but boom." And I was like, okay, "Hey, but you're physically attracted to her, right?" Dead silence. And he goes, "Well, I think that's worldly. I think that's allowing the world to feed into as a Christian man, that shouldn't be like a super high pri..." And I said, "Hey, granted, it should not be at the top of your list, but it ought to be on your list." Are you physically attracted to her?" And he said, "No." And he goes, "Yeah, but she's this, this, this". And I said, "You know what if you were looking for a business partner. Yeah. If you were looking for a roommate. Yeah. But you're looking..." By the way, they didn't get married. That really bothered him.

Chris Grace:    By the 54th minute you had told him.

Tim Muehlhoff:    I just said to him, "Dude, I don't know how to answer this question. I just think if she picks up on this." Now can you come to be sexually attracted to her? I think the answer is yes. Should this be the biggest criteria? I said by the way, "We'd have a different conversation if you said to me, 'Oh man, she is the most beautiful woman I'm so attracted. I can't wait to get married.'" I'd say, "Okay, but you like her, right?" You know what I mean? So it would have been that, but Chris, I didn't know what to say. I appreciated his honesty, but man, "I was like whoa." So what are your thoughts on that?

Chris Grace:    Gosh, it's a really good question. I'm glad you brought it up. You know, you think of Fiddler on the Roof where in this great story he's confronted with, but do you love me? He's asking his wife of what, 30, 40 years they've had four children together, "But do you love me?" And she's like, "What do you mean do I love you? I cook your food. I sleep with you. We have children. Why are you asking me this question?" So Tim, the answer is in arranged marriages. It's very clear that many of them are just as happy, have just as good of marriages as anybody else. And there's not a whole lot of time to get to know the other person, both from a physical standpoint that is you find them attractive.

    In fact, it just happens to be someone who's brought you together and in cultures like that, those marriages oftentimes succeed sometimes even better. Now because we don't live in a culture in which people are arranging our marriages, we tend to elevate, I think, physical attraction. So I think in particular with physical attraction, Tim, I think you're right. If there is no strong attraction to another person and you're dating them, I think you would better very quickly make some decisions before the relationship gets more serious that you do not continue to lead this person on if you just simply don't find them physically attractive.

Tim Muehlhoff:    Here, I totally agree with you Chris. But I think I would say give it time because your friendship, how much you like each other, your enjoyment, it can do wonders for physical attraction. By the way, the inverse is absolutely true. I found this person very attractive, but the more I got to know their sense of humor, they became less attractive. So I would say, it's it can't be the end all be all because we all change physically. Hey, that just happens when you get married. I think we've overblown it today that the physical sexual attraction thing is overblown today, but let's not minimize it. Yeah.

Chris Grace:    Let's not minimize it. And let's not lead another person to a point where they're questioning whether or not you find them valuable, attractive. Regardless if there were other people in the world who don't find you attractive if your spouse does, if that person you're connected to find you attractive, my guess is you begin to live into that and you probably do become attractive. And so you get the spouse that you speak into and if you're not speaking words like, "Man, I find you a beautiful and I just want you and you alone. My eyes are only for you compared to anybody else in the world you are the most beautiful thing." If that spouse isn't hearing that. I think Tim, not only can it bring up doubts in a person, I think they'd begin to wonder, "Well, good night, if you're not find me attractive, all it takes is for you to find somebody that's attractive and then I'm going to lose you."

    And that creates massive trust issues, insecurity. So if you're dating somebody and they are just like you said, "Great business partners, but nothing there." I think the best advice is you'd better sit down and have a very serious conversation with yourself, as to whether or not you're going to continue to lead this person to a point because I think you're creating all kinds of problems.

Tim Muehlhoff:    And let me just close with this, Chris, so let's say you're married. In today's crazy body image culture, which particularly for women, they just look at what they see and I can never live up to that.... There's just never, so my husband must not. We need to up the game to specifically comment on our wife's attractiveness and we never joke about her body, we never do subtle hints, but I think we need to up the game just to say to our wives, "I absolutely..." So Chris, I used to do that line from the Steve Martin movie. Remember the woman walks by the frozen foods and he goes, "Hubba-hubba, stay away from the frozen foods." So I would do that all the time. And even to this day, I have many faults, but I always compliment Noreen infront of the children that she is... And let her do with it what she may. Like, "Oh, stop it. 'No, hey listen. I absolutely find you attractive and you have not changed. And you're beautiful."

    All right. So let's talk to the husband who's listening and saying, "Hey dude, you don't know my wife. I married her when she was this, she's put on easily 60 pounds, 70 pounds. She is not that anymore. So what am I supposed to say? And I think she ought to exercise more and I think she probably should drop 30 pounds. So what am I supposed to do? Just blow smoke. That's interesting.

Chris Grace:    Yeah. In that situation, I tend to believe that it's not the weight, it's not the look, it's something else that's going on in that relationship. Probably something much deeper related to... They just are struggling in a different way, they're not connected emotionally. And I think that comes out then and because people point out or find out that which is maybe very salient and easy. And let's say in this case it's where that husband really probably is dealing with some other issues right in that relationship. And Tim, that could be such a damaging statement to make to somebody. And we find couples that come to us who are like that and like, "All right, buddy, hold on here. First of all, you're going to have to start figuring out how to process some of your own messed up things here. Because to call somebody that you married and to say that to them is a sign that you've got some issues that are probably unresolved here. And some of this, you might need to look at some of these hidden or deeper issues going on.

Tim Muehlhoff:    And look in the mirror. It wasn't just... All of us struggle with. You know what I mean? Except you and it makes me so angry. It just makes me mad that you have a full head of hair and you just freaking look as slim as ever. That ticks me off and I don't think you're being considerate to your co-host.

Chris Grace:    Tim it's really cool issues but thank you for that by the way. [crosstalk 00:36:03].

Tim Muehlhoff:    I am.

Chris Grace:    And I'm not sure how to end the podcast now maybe we just go to another question.

Tim Muehlhoff:    Just take it baby. Embrace it.

Chris Grace:    Well, good questions that we get. Let's continue this and do it again. What do you think?

Tim Muehlhoff:    Oh, I love it.

Chris Grace:    All right.

Tim Muehlhoff:    These were good.

Chris Grace:    Good talking to you.

Speaker 3:    Have you ever been asked to mentor a young married couple, but were afraid to say yes. Thankfully the Center for Marriage and Relationships is here to help. The CMR's Marriage Mentoring Curriculum covers important topics like communication, forgiveness, and the ever important sexual intimacy. It even provides tips on when and how to refer a couple for professional help. Sound interesting? Check out the resources page on our website at