In this episode, Chris and Alisa Grace’s staff members, Tatum Munivez and Rachel Pestana, explore the challenges of navigating life after college in “The Postgrad Trenches.” They discuss key transitions like moving back home, starting a new job, relocating to a new city, shifting friendships, unmet expectations, and the pressure to have life figured out. Drawing from their own real-life experiences, they provide practical insights and encouragement to help you navigate uncertainty, build new rhythms, process grief, and stay intentional in your relationships during this major life shift.

Resources Mentioned:

• CMR Blog on Friendship After Graduation – Practical encouragement on maintaining friendships post-grad (https://cmr.biola.edu/blog/2025/when-life-changes-how-do-friendships-survive)
• CMR Blog on Inviting God Into Your Emotions – Spiritual guidance for processing post-grad transitions (https://cmr.biola.edu/blog/2026/five-reminders-about-god-for-the-graduating-senior)
• Biola CMR Free Relationship Advice – Confidential, biblical, and practical relationship guidance (https://cmr.biola.edu/resources/relationship-advice)

Connect with Us:

• Website: cmr.biola.edu
• Facebook: facebook.com/biolacmr
• Instagram: instagram.com/biolacmr
• YouTube: www.youtube.com/@biola-cmr

Join the Conversation:

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About the Hosts:

Chris Grace, Ph.D., and Alisa Grace are passionate about helping people build and sustain healthy relationships. As leaders of the Biola University Center for Marriage and Relationships, they combine the wisdom of Scripture with scholarly research to offer practical advice and insights. Learn more about their work at cmr.biola.edu.

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Tatum [00:00:00] In this episode of the Art of Relationships podcast, CMR staff Tatum Univas and Rachel Fasana are taking over to talk about life in the post-grad trenches. For years, life followed a clear roadmap, classes, semesters, internships, and graduation. But what happens when that structure suddenly disappears? Tatum and Rachel share honest reflections from their own post-graduate experiences, exploring the challenges and surprises that come with this transition. From moving back home or starting somewhere new to navigating first jobs. Shifting friendships and the pressure to have life figured out. Together they impact the uncertainty many young adults face after college and offer encouragement, perspective, and practical wisdom for anyone stepping into this new season of adulthood.

Mandy [00:00:42] Welcome to the Art of Relationships. This podcast is produced by the Biola University Center for Marriage and Relationships Let's get right into it.

Tatum [00:00:52] Well, welcome back to the Art of Relationships podcast. I know what you're thinking, that is not Chris Grace. Whoa, you in fact are correct. This is Tatum Unibes and I bet you're also wondering, who is that woman? It's me, Rachel Postana. We are CMR staff members, I, Tatum, if you're wondering, am the marketing and communications manager here at CMR. And I am Rachel, the assistant to the directors here at the CMR. Karly Yes. And we have gone rogue. We are taking over the podcast. Today, the students become the masters here on the podcast, and if you're wondering, Chris and Alisa have no clue that we're reporting this right now, it's going to be a surprise when this releases. They are busy planning Caroline's wedding, their daughter, which is so soon. So, surprise to them, take over, best bosses ever, we're doing it for you guys. Yes, and today we are going to be talking about living in the post-grad trenches. Isn't that true? Isn't. That. True. It's like that weird time after you graduate and you're like, what do I do with my life? Who am I? Where do I go? All right. And unfortunately, this is not talked about very much. One thing Tam and I were talking about earlier is how up until graduating college, most of your life is probably planned out for you. Elementary, middle, high school, and then probably college was even in your plan. After that, you're kind of left with, what do we do? What's next for us? Do I get my master's? Do I got married? Do I move to New York? Do I become-

Alisa [00:02:37] A nanny injur-

Tatum [00:02:39] There's so many options and it's like your whole life, everyone tells you what the next thing is. So it's planned and now it's up to you to decide, which can be so exciting and also so stressful. Karly Yes, it's a double edged sword because you're given freedom, but also do we want this freedom to make a really hard decision of where your literal life is going. Exactly. So, that's what we're going to be talking about today. If any of you guys relate, or honestly, this is to a lot of college students who are graduating and don't know what's next, and we just want to open up the conversation to talk about what it has looked like for us. So I was thinking maybe we could start off with our stories. Like post-grad, when you graduated, what happened, what were the plans, how did they change? Because they always do. In old things. Kite Well, I can start with my start bar age. Cool. Oh my goodness, you guys, did I have a completely different plan for post-grad than what has transpired, than what happened? Coming into my final months of senior year, I was thinking about grad school, I thinking about living abroad in space, and was fully doing that whole process. I was applying for my visa in Spain. I had been going through an application process to be a part of a government program there. Oh my goodness. And then after that, I had planned to go to grad school for two years, right? So I was set. She had our five year plan. I had my plan all settled down, but you know what? The Lord loves to change things up on our seat over on Nightmare Inn. Which I am so thankful for, because I wouldn't be here right now. Yeah, but not have me. Exactly. And that's what really matters. Yeah, exactly. Being here with you, Tate. Good luck. Good. I'm working at the CMR, which is such a good time. But basically how all of that happened, how all that changed, was just multiple things fell through overnight. My Spain program closed down, which it was a government program, so that was crazy. Not supposed to happen. It was on the news. It was a whole thing. So how long before you left did it shut down? Two months before I was supposed to leave. So, time to go vying. Just an insane change of expectations, which I think is a huge thing. We all have expectations for post-grad, and wondering what that will look like and how much pressure can come with that. So I think I was definitely feeling that too, of well, now what? Now what do I do? Still had grad school on my mind and was like, well, I guess I just have a year until grad school, because I had to apply and then defer for the fall of the next year, because I was supposed to go abroad. So I went home, so I've really done the full range of post-grady spirit dances. I went back home to Northern California, stayed with my parents there, and worked at a school while I was there for a few months. And out of nowhere, this job at the CMR appeared. And because I've loved this job so much, I've decided to stick with it and do not plan on going to grad school in the fall. And that was a recent choice. Yes, which is crazy. So if you had told me not even a year ago that the 3-year plan or the 5-year, whatever I had was going to completely change overnight, I'd have been like, what are you talking about? But I'm so glad it did. I think you should tell them the story about how God put the CMR on your heart and how this job came to be. Oh my goodness, you guys, it's insane. Gosh, how much do I share? I love it. At one point, when I was still planning on going to grad school in the fall, I was down here visiting some friends from college, and while I was on campus, I actually felt prompted, I think, by the Holy Spirit to come into the CMR and ask if they were hiring. And the crazy thing is I was working here at the time, and my old coworker, Jane, Shout out. She had just put it in her two weeks that like that week that is saint october that rachel got prompted by the holy spirit to walk in insane right in the sit guess what i chickened out and i didn't i was like are you in the car in prayer literally with bernard no no i am not really not and what's so crazy is i remember thinking like i had known that you and jane were working here, so I thought, well, they are not hiring. But yeah, I just remember thinking, oh, they're not hiring right now, I'm not going to go in there. I was also mad. It was so disobedient. So bad. But you know what, it shows even when we're super ignorant and disobedient, the Lord will still fulfill his plans for us. So please take comfort in that, whoever's low drew. So yeah, cut to two weeks later, did not come in here. I get a text... From my friend Alex. Shout out to Alex Mann. She's amazing. And she said, hey, I saw this job opening and thought of you and sent it to me. And it's a job for the CMR. Insane. What is happening. This is so crazy. Another crazy thing about that is that moments before this, maybe a few days before, I had been talking to my mom about what a dream job would be like for me. And thinking about like an admin position, working for a Christian organization, and I had done that in the past and loved it so much. But I was like, where would that come from? Then Alex said, that doesn't exist. That's just the head. And then it fell right into my lap. And the crazy thing also from my perspective is that we were shutting down interviews at the time you applied. We had interviewed maybe five people and we were like, okay, we have our top candidate, We want to move forward. I'm not kidding you, the day we were going to cut off interviews, someone from Talbot who were under Talbot was like, hey, we actually just got another application, I really think you should interview her. And I was like no, we have our person, I don't want to do another interview. And they were like, you should, we really like her, just from her application. She worked at SMU, she got Viola down, she knows our branding, she was a student here. I was like, okay, who is this chick? So I scheduled Rachel Piston's interview and we had so many mutual friends and then she ended up being our top pick and hired. Which is crazy that we literally always catch you out! They said, you're done! You're done. Not true. Yeah. Which, again, just such a testament to that if the Lord wants you somewhere, he will make that happen. Yeah. Like, I truly owe all of this to God. The fact that I get to even be here right now talking to you is so special. And I think just in this new season, I've been reflecting so much on just how many transitions post-grad has and how in the midst of those transitions, God is still so faithful to us. It can show up for us overnight, like, it's been crazy how that happened. So cool. And yes, back to my post-grad story. Amazing. And when did you graduate? I graduated in May 2025, so not too long ago at all. And I graduated on, oh my gosh, May 2024, year four. I forget. She's so in it, she's so locked in on her job. That graduation doesn't even occur to her, yeah. What was that like for you? That's a great question, and a funny story also. So my senior year of college, I decided I'm going to start my own business. So I started my little marketing agency, I maybe had like two or three clients while I was doing college and trying to graduate, also was trying to plan a wedding, engage all of the things at once. So much at once. Which is like, whiplash. Um, but I realized I don't know if I can make enough money on just this business. So I'm gonna probably need to find a job. The issue was, I was planning to go home for five months in the summer before I got married and then move back down here. So I knew I needed a job that started in October and needed to be in Southern California. But I was gonna be in Northern California all summer. So it's like How is this going to happen? How is it going to happened? And the weird thing is, I don't remember being stressed. I kind of unwind, so I think it's just going to work out. Which is great! Which is good, naive, and I will say naive, but I was like, okay, just keep my eyes out for a job. So maybe two or three weeks before graduation, Laureen Mogerdichian, who's the head of Marketing Management program at Biola sends out a campus announcement. And she says, hey guys, the CMR is hiring. Alisa Grace just reached out to me and said they are hiring a communications and marketing manager. So I just kind of wanted to put this out there if anyone wants to apply, a great place to work. My literal dream job is in front of me. Because I had tried to become a student worker here, and it didn't work out. I don't think I even interviewed or anything. It didn't really work out, I had like literally emailed Lacey and been like, please can I work for you sometime? And so this was truly a dream job of mine. And I was like, I get to stay at Biola. Talk about not having to transition that much, which we can talk about. I got to stay at Viola. They're super flexible with Start, and it was with an organization that I loved. The CMR had impacted Noah and I so much as undergrad students, taking the Christian Perspectives class, which I know impacted your life too. And so I was like, I get to be part of such a cool mission with cool people, heck yeah. So I interviewed for the job on graduation day. No. On graduation day, to be right here to this office. You came here and then went to graduation afterwards? Yes. Which is so funny to me, and I was moving. Wow. Right, like, the day after. Moving out. That's insane. So I was like, I don't know how the rest of these interviews are going to work, but I'm here today. And then I went through two more rounds of interviews remotely. And heard back in the middle of July. So still no job at this point, just doing my marketing. Which is great too. Which is awesome, but definitely like... Right, you were waiting. I need a job. For something. And in the mid of July I found out I got the position, which is so fun. And then I worked part time online through the end of September while I was still home, and then I moved out here and started the job full time. Which also was whiplash, imagine, moving back down here, but in a completely different capacity from student to a staff member, which is really weird seeing your friends walk around campus as students and you're working here. So weird. Also, just getting married, like living with a man for the first time. Not living in dorms, living in your own apartment, new city, new job, new husband, to all the things. Major whiplash trying to figure out my footing, all friends move away, it's just a lot. Which we can dive into more, but that is my story a little bit, and also figuring out over the summer, oh my gosh I have to live with my parents again, I'll have to, I love you mom and dad. I love living at home, but it's figuring out new boundaries, how to live, new dynamics, Yes! Udynamics would blast from. Graduation home, down here, all the things. So yeah. How do you feel interviewing on graduation day? Did that feel like surreal or was it just like onto the next thing? No, it wasn't surreal for sure. Because it's my dream job that I didn't want to fumble the interview. But I'm also trying to move out and at the same time go to my graduation ceremony at this same time. It was just insane but I also was thinking like, wow, you waited for the last minute for this job that he provided. Something that I've jumped up for so long, right then and there, and I was like, Wow, thank you a lot.

Alisa [00:15:43] Hey, let's be real, Chris, right? We've all had moments where we thought, I wish somebody would just help me figure out this whole relationship thing.

Chris [00:15:52] And sometimes it's not even marriage, right? It just might be a roommate, or a dating relationship, family, or even friendships.

Alisa [00:15:58] Yeah, and that's exactly why we offer free relationship advice through the Center for Marriage and Relationships.

Chris [00:16:04] Yeah, it's not only free, but it's confidential, it biblical, it practical, and those who seek guidance early enough can often avoid huge problems later.

Alisa [00:16:14] Yeah, so if you're wrestling with something big or maybe there's just something small and you don't have to do it alone.

Chris [00:16:21] Yeah, I just know that you can connect with our team today, so just check the show notes for all the details.

Tatum [00:16:32] I think we should dive into all the different ways people go post-grad, whether it's into a new job, a new city, moving back home, searching for a job for 10 months, like I know you mentioned some of your friends have been looking at the job market, which is the reality of things right now. Yeah, but maybe we can just go through each passage I feel like we've between the two of us have done every part of it in this post-grad, yeah. Yeah, let's maybe talk about what it was like moving home first. Yes, oh my goodness. Using the gopher. Because we had experiences. Yeah, yeah, I definitely agree with you. Completely new dynamics and I think it's crazy for most of us. We go away to college for two years or four years and learn so many new things about ourselves. We kind of become new people with new habits in so many ways, especially living with housemates or roommates. And in becoming a new person, sometimes going back home, it can feel like, okay, I became a newperson in college, why do I feel like I'm kind of regressing back to high school self? Which, psychologically does make sense, because... You're being re-surrounded with all of those old habits and experiences and spaces that you had in high school. Isn't it weird? Like the second you walk into your childhood bedroom, you're like, I'm mad. It's me. It's a me. It's my old self. It's 16 year old me. It is weird though, too. I feel like when you go to college or trade school or whatever, you kind of become this person. You grow out of your younger self. If I imagine myself. Growing like think of the image of a plant growing like sprouting. Right? Yes. You're doing your thing. Spread your wings as a parent would say. You like you're growing. I'm just thinking of the plant picture. You sprout. And then you go back home and it feels like you have to fit back in to the pre-sprouted version. No, it's good! It feels like you have to fit back into it, like rank yourself almost, to fit into your old life. Did you experience that at all? Completely. Yeah, even just like visiting friends back home and learning what those dynamics look like too. I think people don't really like change, me included. In our core, change is really hard for people. Yeah. So I think... That's everyone's experience, like, oh, I changed, now I'm back, other people have changed. That was something you and I were even talking about today, of how weird it is to be so close with people and then to suddenly go away for a time and then come back. And it feels like there's a disconnect for a moment. It's those people that you are spending every day with in high school. And you're in the same town, you're probably doing the same extracurriculars. You go to classes every day together and then you go and live these completely different lives, which is so great. Everyone do your thing. But then you come back and all those things that you had in common are gone. And it just feels so weird. I feel like it's very unsettling. It is. Like all of these things that I once knew to be true aren't true anymore. It's you, but it's not you. At the same time, we don't fit the same way that we used to fit. Friends that just work straight out of high school and ended up falling away from the faith, or people who moved abroad that I just don't talk to anymore and they've had completely different cultural experiences Coming back to see them. It's just so That makes sense. And weird. How did you reconcile, or did you, reconcile that when you came back home? I think I've been a process of reconciling and I think that's something we have to do over and over again. Because then you come to college and make friends and then you graduate and the cycle kind of happens over again, where he's like, wow. Now I'm having to say goodbye and do another transition and just what that can look like. I think what does help me reconcile it is acknowledging that, okay, now I have to make this relationship work in a new way. This relationship has to evolve in a way. I was talking to a friend about this recently about how people don't change so much that they're not willing to evolve with friendships. They're like, if it can't be what it was when I enjoyed it most, I don't want any part of it. They don't say that outright, but subconsciously it's there. And I remember, this is regarding college friendships, but I remember one of my close friends was getting married and I was super sad, like, it's just not going to be what it was. We used to spend every day together on the dorm floor and Go to Target at 11pm and salt and straw and do whatever, you can just knock on their door and they're there. And we hang out all the time, you are literally doing 24-7 life with them. And I knew when she gets married, it's just going to be different. She has a new priority in her resmen, which is what we're called to, that's great, but I knew for me, it would be different, and that was really hard for me and I almost... I started to find myself resenting a little bit, like why does this have to change? When it is so good for me, she challenges me, encourages me, like all the things that make up a good friend, I'm not going to get to experience those anymore. That just feels like something being taken away. So I started experiencing that resentment and I was talking to another friend about it and she was like, Tidum, all friendships change. Unfortunately that is just part of life and if you don't change with them you're gonna lose the friendship and i was like okay mic drop like i don't want yes this friendship and I have to be okay with the new norm that it's gonna take a lot more intentionality to have this friendship it's not gonna look the same we're not gonna have as much time we're not going to be as close probably and I have to be okay with that and I think it took me realizing that friendships are certain ways for each season. I think I used to think that, oh, this is going to be our best friend forever and ever and we're always going to the same and nothing's ever going to change that. But realizing that every friendship is for a season or meant for different things in different seasons. And that's just how it is and how God designed it and being willing to let go the control I thought I had over the relationship and just be like Okay, it's gonna be what God wants it to be. And of course you are responsible for putting in the time and effort to those friendships, but there's some things that you can't control, like life circumstances, where you live, if they're married, if they're single, all the things. So yeah, that's a really tough thing to reconcile, and it takes time I feel like recognize it because you're hit with so much change at once, and you're thinking, oh, my friendships surely won't be the thing that changes. But they do too. And it takes time to realize that and be okay with that. That's at least how I was able to reconcile it, but like you said, it still is a process. Like, I have my best best friends in college, two of them live across the country, and It's like, okay, on which days can I FaceTime you when we both have- full-time jobs, school, spouses, there's so much going on, how can we fit our friendship into this life? We're still figuring it out, and our whole lives are going to be figuring out how can I be the best friend for you in this season. Kat, that was amazing, and I even think a lot of the resentment you were describing may have also been grief of grieving that old friendship, or even what life was. Yes. Totally. Do you feel like you experienced that? With that. Yeah, I think it's like that is the core of it, but it came out as anger or resentment. And I think even being able to recognize that it's grief, if you are experiencing this right now, being able recognize that its grief, I feel like gives you compassion for yourself and for the other people. They're probably experiencing grief too, in another way that their life looks so different and that's okay. You don't have to be holly jolly so glad that life is the way that it is right now. You can express, I'm really sad about this, and I'm grieving this, and God will meet you there. And I think you talked about that in the blog you just did. Yeah. About God meets you. And our grief. In different places. What are your thoughts on that? Have you experienced grief in different ways. Totally, and I do feel like a lot of the graduation experience is grieving all of the amazing things that happen, which if we need to be the person to tell you this, it's totally okay for you to be sad that college is ending and a new transition is happening. And I think that shows that you actually had a lot of incredible experiences while in college, and it's okay to be sad about that ending. And I do think the Lord sits with us in that. I don't think God expects us to just, like you were saying, be happy and that it's actually okay for us to bring that before God in prayer. Which I think is so good because culture a lot of times tells us like you graduated, you're free, like go climb the corporate ladder and you're baddie, or like go not work and travel the world, or do all these different things and you see obviously social media heightens the comparison game here, but everyone is so ecstatic to be done with college, onto the next thing, onto next thing bigger, better, all the things, but when you go home, you can't find a job, all your friends are doing things without you, it can feel debilitating, like what... Am I doing wrong to not experience that and I think that we just want to say it's okay to be where you are and God has you there, it's so cheesy, for a reason though. He had you at home for a reasons, he had you come to Biola for a cause, he put that on your heart for a good reason to walk into the C of R, he went on Alex's heart to text you, everything is for a real reason. I always like to say that we see... This much of our lives, like whatever is right in front of us, but God is seeing the entirety of our life. Like so much bigger, he's seeing the conversations that we're not in, he seeing the places we haven't gone yet, he is seeing all the whole picture and all we can see is right in front us because we're so self-absorbed. But I like to remind myself that he's saying so much more than what I am right now, so I need to trust that he has me in this one specific place. For a good reason, like he's not out to trick me or get me for something else or he's not being mean to teach me a lesson, but he has me here for a reason. For good. I like that. That's so good, Tatum. So we talked about moving home. What about people who move somewhere new, maybe for a job or something? We both experienced, I mean we both lived kind of in La Mirada, but we moved to new towns within Orange County. In a totally different capacity. So I feel like we can't necessarily speak to it exactly the way someone moving to New York or Chicago might experience it, but we have experienced the newness of a town and a role. Can you speak to your experience moving back down here and what that's been like? Because that's only like, you're only two months removed. Re-reputering this, I think, at this point. Get me out of here. Yeah, talk about transition. I do think it helps that we went to school right here. I think that's been a huge blessing that we both have gotten to experience in our post-grad journey. But yeah, I do still think that that new role, coming into a new place, not as a college student, but as a full-time employee, is a completely new headspace and thing to grapple with. I think coming into new town, living two towns over from our university. It has been a new experience of just learning what my routine looks like and how those new rhythms can develop for me and what the post-grad rhythm looks like, which is a completely new transition. And I am living with new people this year. I live in a house with nine people. Nine people. Which is so much fun. Mostly people. All people I know from Biola, which was so much in such a good time. But I think even learning how to navigate that as a post-grad person is an interesting experience of, okay, how do I pace myself in this? And how do i adjust to a more relaxed version of life? Would you say that post-grads is more relaxed? I would say the pacing, like you're not going from class to activity to Mockrog, to like staying up till when I am doing homework. It's- not as rushed in that respect, but I do feel like with the 9-to-5 life, you are adapting to 8 hour work days, totally. You have to come back and meal prep and do all the things for that, figure out, okay, workout routine? That was kind of built in with inner murals and whatever, for me at least. What does that routine look like? What is keeping a home clean? You think they don't clean it here? The janitors would come and clean our dorms, right? Now we're keeping an entire house or apartment clean. It's like, I need a Costco membership card now, I'm gonna get casted. There's so many new things that you're having to keep in mind. So I agree, it's not as crazy chaotic, but there's new things and new rhythms to be thinking about. Completely. What were those new rhythms like for you? That was honestly hard for me to transition into 8-hour work days was rough, because in college and in life, you have hour and hour of class, I have a 3 hour break now to just chill, do whatever, do homework, hang out with friends, and now every day, Monday to Friday, 8 hours of work. And I'm not going to lie, it was a very tough transition. I'm just- mentally to be like I need to focus in, I need a walk in for this amount of time. And I'm someone who I do like routine, but at the same time monotonous routine, week in and week out doing the same thing is very hard for me. And so it was definitely a difficult adjustment, but within that I learn to find meaning and fun things to do outside of work, even though I love my job. Finding things outside of Biola has been so good for me. Something to look forward to at the end of the day. It just became later sunsets for us. So by the time I get home, it's still light out, which is awesome. But now I can go to the beach and watch the sunset with my husband and play cards. And I've been doing new hobbies every month, so I did roller skating, tried that, I've done pottery. This month, we are building a garden in our backyard. I'd like to hear that, yeah. That's a surprise. But just creating new rhythms in your life outside of work. Because work can become all-consuming, especially in post-graduate interest, trying to get your feet under you in your career. And so I've found creating those new habits and new hobbies, even if you're just trying it for fun, just go and have fun outside of your work. And that has been so life-giving for me. Wow. And I know you've tried something new with your ballet, wait, bar. My bar classes. Yeah, which I don't know if I'm gonna continue to. But you tried something. Yeah, I tried something which was such a good time and it is so important to try new things. I feel like to just finding community in that way is really helpful, too. That's such a good point, yeah, like go to the workout passes and find new friends. To meet people, and it's such great experience. I've gotten involved at a church, which has been stated when I go to that same church, which has really been cool. Shout out Grace Fellowship Church. Shout out to Mesa. It's a fellowship shirt. And so, getting involved in Young Adults there, going every Sunday, that has been such a blessing as well. Just to have community outside of work, outside of Viola is so important too. Even though I love my co-workers. Even though we have so much fun. And we are friends outside of the work. I imagine that if you're going into more of a corporate setting job, your co-worker's probably not hanging out outside of your work. Like find other friends. Get out of your head, get out your office and just go to the workout class, go to church, plug yourself in. And I feel like it's the same advice I would give someone going into college is you just have to try to make friends. Everyone is in the same boat, yes. We literally all just graduated, we're all trying to figure out life, just go up to someone and be like, hey, do you want to grab coffee? And just ask, because most people do want friends, most people are looking for the same thing that you were looking for, which is connection. So be brave and go do the hard thing, and if you don't want to... Join a young adults group or something. It's like a forced connection, which is great, which is awesome. Evie I'll need a little forced connection sometimes, yeah. So new hobbies, having fun, and plugging yourself into community, is there any other advice you would give someone who is maybe moving to a new place? Kat- Just give yourself grace, that's so much. And again, we were talking about change earlier and how hard change is. So I think just also acknowledging you do not have to have it all together. And good things take time. We were talking about adjusting to like the eight hour workday, the 40 hour week. That takes time. I've asked people, oh, how long did it take to adjust? I would say like six months. Like a long time, which it probably depends on the job. But I think that's been helpful for me too, just as I learned about post-grad, that like a lot of good things are gonna take months. Yeah, that's okay. And that's a blessing in a lot ways, because it slows us down and allows us to really process things too. Love that. Tatum, as we wrap up, let's do our number one rapid fire final piece of advice. Love. Okay, my... Biggest piece of advice is concerning friendship in post-grad because I felt like me and my friends were so close in college and we all scattered. My number one piece of advise is to always have a date on the calendar for when you're going to get together next. It's something to look forward to and make time and money for that. Budget the money to Fly out to see them, have a date on the calendar, make the time. Or else life could go by, and you're just like, oh, maybe next year, maybe next year. Be intentional with the friends that you want to keep. Even through the change, just make time and money for them, because they're worth it. Don't let them just slip by and let life do its thing, but be intentional with them. And then my favorite thing to do is on your commutes to work with your new big girl. Big boy job! Call your friends on commutes. Because they're probably commuting too, it's a great time where you're just driving and you can chat and be updated in their life and pray for them. Kat- Great tarot! That is so good! I love that. Sam- What's your rapid fire advice? Kat- My rapid fire would be to invite God into your emotions that you're feeling in this post-grad transition. Sam- So good. Kat- You're going to feel so many emotions in this transition. Grieve. Excitement, happiness, sadness, and that ties a lot into friendship too. So I think even just praying about it can be just such a helpful way to process how you're feeling. And that brings it before the Lord, and God can transform us through prayer. So I really want to emphasize that. Karly When you go into your day, be like, Lord, walk with me today, I need you today to walk before, behind, beside, and within me. Just letting him be in on everything you're doing that day. I love that. That you would strengthen you for that day because things get crazy after you graduate and you need his strength and his grace more than ever. And we probably haven't even experienced the craziest part of life, like family or anything. We're just we're just getting started. Maybe I'm just getting so crazy. Yeah, I do think too that helps a lot if you're in a job position that you're not loving, which is the case for so many people. Yeah. To even just invite God into that and say I don't love this job, but I still want to see you show up through this and having those important moments throughout the day could make a huge difference. Yeah, the Lord. So have that. Yeah, throwing that out there too. Well, if you want to learn more about both of our hot tips, we both wrote blogs on the CMR's website about friendship and inviting the Lord into your emotions after graduation. So if you want to check those out, feel free to visit cmr.biola.edu or follow us at BiolaCMR on Instagram or Facebook if Facebook's your thing. But thank you so much for joining us today and you probably won't see us next episode. Lois, Chris and Lisa, we'll be back. This is all we get. This is what we get, but if you wanna another episode drop with Rachel and I, let us know. We'd love to hear it. Thanks guys. Thanks you guys.

Mandy [00:39:29] We're very glad you joined us for today's podcast. For more resources on marriage and healthy relationships, please visit our website at cmr.biola.edu. We'll see you next time on The Art of Relationships.