In this episode, Chris and Alisa Grace explore the often-overlooked struggle of making friends in college. They discuss why college can feel more isolating than expected, the psychological and social hurdles that block new friendships, and the surprising reasons even extroverts feel lonely in new environments. Providing practical insights and encouragement, they share stories, scientific research, and biblical wisdom to help students take initiative, overcome social anxiety, and build meaningful connections.

Whether you're dealing with roommates, classmates, old high school friends, or you're navigating life as a commuter, this episode offers valuable advice to improve your relationships and feel less alone.

Resources Mentioned:

• How to Ask Better Questions (PDF) – A guide to asking questions that build deeper connection and spark better conversations.
• It’s Just Coffee (PDF) – A simple tool to help start low-pressure conversations and grow new friendships.
• Free Relationship Advice – Schedule a free session with a trained relationship advisor (in-person or virtual).

Connect with Us:

• Website: cmr.biola.edu
• Facebook: facebook.com/biolacmr
• Instagram: instagram.com/biolacmr
• YouTube: www.youtube.com/@biola-cmr
  
  

Join the Conversation:

• Subscribe to The Art of Relationships Podcast to never miss an episode.
• Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite platform to help others discover the show.
• Share this episode with someone who could benefit from these relationship insights.
  Sign up for weekly updates and resources from the Center for Marriage and Relationships:
  👉 http://eepurl.com/bgsuQv

About the Hosts:

Chris Grace, Ph.D., and Alisa Grace are passionate about helping people build and sustain healthy relationships. As leaders of the Biola University Center for Marriage and Relationships, they combine the wisdom of Scripture with scholarly research to offer practical advice and insights. Learn more about their work at cmr.biola.edu.

Mandy [00:00:01] Welcome to the Art of Relationships. This podcast is produced by the Biola University Center for Marriage and Relationships, let's get right into it.

Chris [00:00:10] Well, Lisa, welcome to another Art of Relationships podcast. What a cool opportunity we get to talk about all things relationships. And it's just fun, it's fun to do it. And I'm so glad that it's sponsored by the, of course, Biola University Center for Marriage and Relationships here at the campus of Biola university. And one of the cool things that started this whole center, Lisa was the idea of relationships. And... Students faculty staff and others out in the world that might be dealing with, you know common relationship issues But they really don't have a lot of perspectives, especially those that might come from a you know Not just a biblical perspective which in and of itself is enough, but we bring in some scientific research We back it with what you know My training is a psychologist yours is in communication and we founded this center to say let's look at biblical truths augmented by what science has been finding and showing, and then make it practical for people.

Alisa [00:01:15] And we've been doing this for like 35 years, so for a long time.

Chris [00:01:21] Yeah, in fact, we invented podcasts. I don't know that, but we are the inventor. We go way back before podcasts, don't we? Yeah, and then we'll tell you what that means later at the end of the day. Yeah, okay, so hey, let's do this, Lise. One of the topics that we get to deal with because we are professors and run a center at a university is the notion of friendships, especially friendships that are. Newer or at the young stage with college students, but this applies to friendships across the board. But we're going to talk specifically about some of the challenges, some of the issues, and some of the benefits of what it means to, hey, be in a new environment, a new place like college and how to make friends.

Alisa [00:02:09] Yeah, because isn't college such a unique time in life? I mean like, so for the first time you're living away from home for the first time, you're becoming more independent apart from your parents, you're developing, having to develop a whole new community of support, right, because you're in a new town, new church, new friends, new place that you're living. You're having to live with somebody that's not your family. And boy, that can be a challenge. And then you're having to make a whole new set of friends. So that can really be challenging.

Chris [00:02:48] Yeah, those are challenges. And what are the benefits? Well, you're living away from home for the first time. You're growing, right? You're going independent from your parents, right. Yeah, whole new community support. You're living with someone not in your family and you have a whole new set of friends. I mean, in reality, it's the opposite of that, right, it's, ooh, these are the benefit.

Alisa [00:03:08] Exactly. It's interesting, the same things that can seem like challenges, if you approach them from a different perspective and a different outlook, they actually can become benefits and opportunities for growth.

Chris [00:03:21] Yeah. Okay. So, you know, I'm from the state of Colorado, born and raised there and grew up with friends and family, you, know, nearby and enjoyed high school, you know. Well, anyway, decided very last minute to instead of going to see you with a roommate I already had picked out.

Alisa [00:03:43] And bolder, right?

Chris [00:03:44] In Boulder, get a call from my dad, who was living in Las Vegas at the time and said, Chris, why don't you come out and go to school at UNLV? They have a great baseball team. Turned out they were so good that, and I wasn't, that he decided like, okay, am I really going to be able to play D1 baseball at UNV? And I didn't. But all that to say I went. And I was so alone. I didn't live in a dorm. I moved in with my dad and his new wife, had a great room. Eventually, it caught up to me after about four days. It's like, all right, this is going to be lonely. And I remember going, this is not what I'm used to. This is hard. You went to Baylor and you grew up in Lubbock mostly. Yes.

Alisa [00:04:37] So, yeah, so I went about five hours away to Waco freshman at Baylor, but I lived in the dorm and I was still incredibly lonely. That was such a hard transition because I was so connected in high school to the community, really connected at church. And so, to move away from home for the first time, to be on my own. It was tough, it was a tough transition.

Chris [00:05:08] And doesn't it feel so random, the way many of us get assigned a roommate, you know? It's like, you just, all right, well, I'll just go with whoever. I don't know anybody going to the school, none of my friends. Yeah, I didn't know my roommate going to. And then all of a sudden you move in and it's a psycho, right? Or it could be.

Alisa [00:05:29] We did we did that podcast the horror stories of roommates so check that one out if you haven't

Chris [00:05:36] Yeah, there's some doozies. Yeah, and then, you know, it could be this natural, wonderful time. New friends, you make friends for life, whatever, and yet there are many who experience loneliness. And I think, Lisa, that the opposite of friendship, right, it's not you're unfriendly, it's that you make enemies everywhere, really it's loneliness and it's isolation. So, I remember thinking this... It was so bad, I would just wait and see after class, sit around, hope someone would, you know, I'd meet someone in front of my class, and I just wasn't used to going out and taking initiative and effort.

Alisa [00:06:17] Yeah, you were Mr. Big Man on campus in high school, weren't you? Oh, yeah

Chris [00:06:23] We had 12 people in our graduating class and I was I was at least number eight on the talk list

Alisa [00:06:31] You just didn't know what to do with yourself when the cheerleaders didn't know who you were in college, right?

Chris [00:06:38] We had five hundred in our graduate class and yeah, you're right friendships came easy but this was a challenge and so what happens then when you're dealing with a Difficult situation of not making friends

Alisa [00:06:53] Yeah, and it can be super hard, but here's the thing, too, that I think is important to keep in mind is research shows that those friendships in college that you're forming, even though it's hard, it is so worth it because research shows students that have a good connection of friendship, good community of friendship actually do better academically and they have higher rates of graduation. They're much more likely to graduate.

Chris [00:07:21] Yeah, study after study show that, right? And so, what do you do when you find yourself in that situation? Maybe it's already, you know, the semester's over, you know, maybe you're beginning, you know, three, four months of not having friendship. There's got to be some things and here's what we recommend. Let's start with a couple of things. I think first of all, The thing a person needs to do is recognize A. This is like a blank slate. This is a new opportunity. It's like, not reinventing yourself, but it's kind of like, you know what? I'm gonna lean into this. I'm going to lean into this new part of me. And I think that idea is, all right, let's take it like you said, as, well, this could be, it's a challenge, but there's also some benefits, and it's the time to kind of start afresh. Yeah. I totally felt that way. Mm-hmm. So what worked, what didn't work, and what are some suggestions? I mean, you've been thinking about this. I've been think about this, you know. We have kids that have gone through this or going through this. Uh-huh.

Alisa [00:08:31] And we have students come in all the time that talk about this kind of challenge. All right, Lise, what was the first thing you start to say? Well, I think if we look at what makes it harder to make friendships in college, we talked about that it really is a unique time. And one of the things that makes it unique is that you're a little bit more socially isolated and for a couple of reasons. First of all, if you're an introvert or you have some social anxiety, that can kind of do a number on you, where it's just hard to take that initiative and step out.

Chris [00:09:08] Yeah, Lisa, you would be the opposite of introvert. I would be more middle of the road, slightly introverted. And so even for you though, as an extrovert, it was hard. So let alone, I mean, introversion is just can be a killer because you don't, you're not comfortable. It's a little bit awkward reaching out. I remember feeling like I don't want to be shut down and I forgot one of the key things we're going to talk about in a minute, I forgot and did not know that I wasn't alone. I wasn't the only one. There were other people around me that were lonely and all I had to do was reach out to them and they would have went, oh my gosh, thank you. I don't have anybody to have lunch with. I know I don t have a dinner friend. That's awesome. But I just thought I was the only. Yeah. I remember thinking that as an introvert. Okay, Lisa, there are a lot of things that make it a challenge, right? I think one that we all know is that feeling of loneliness, even isolation, right? It's like social isolation and that's, but by the way, if you want to punish anybody, one of the strongest, most effective means of breaking people down, if that, now I'm talking strange, if if you had somebody you had break down, it would be to isolate them. Yeah. I mean, even prisons no longer can use isolation except in extreme cases. Because the damage socially, emotionally, psychologically, these people are huge. We just take them away from one another.

Alisa [00:10:44] Yeah. Well, and when we talk about that kind of social isolation, that's a couple of reasons. First of all, you have all these people that have different classes on different schedules, right? Just because you have history at 10 o'clock, I may have history class at 3 o' clock, right? So we have different class. You're a different major than what my major is. And so we're taking totally different classes, different times. And we may even have different study times, right? Perfect time for me to go to the library is at five o'clock in the evening. Yours might be 10 o' clock in the even. And so that isolation is very different from high school where you tend to see the same people all the time, at least in closer confines, mostly the same classes. I mean, there's only gonna be five English classes instead of 200 classes offered at the same time.

Chris [00:11:40] Yeah, and then throw in a particular interest or gifting and so let's say you are a great musician or you like studying music, well, you're gonna do that probably in the afternoons while your roommate might be running track or playing soccer, right, and is like, okay, now I'm with a whole bunch of other people that I don't really know, I want to get to know, but it's hard. So yeah, social isolation can be really hard.

Alisa [00:12:04] Yeah, and I think another reason is because in college, for the most part, you're much more, you can be much more focused on academics. Now, there are those that come to college with the idea of don't let school get in the way of your education.

Chris [00:12:20] I had a buddy like that who he just was so cool, his name went well, I shouldn't say his name. You know, why not? It's Jack. And he was the funnest kid around. In the dorm, right, so my second year I moved from that isolating horrible place, you know, of being alone at UNLV and I transferred to try and play baseball at University of Northern Colorado, also didn't work out very well. But my first days in the dorm there was one guy who stood out His name was Jack. He just was fun. We played on intramural football teams together, played basketball together, but everybody loved Jack. Well, it's interesting because Jack loved everybody, but he also loved hanging out with people, and he didn't love academics, and so he never did anything. So he left after the first semester, I think. Yeah, because he just, life in the dorms for him was like, all right, this is social time. He was having a little too much fun. He was a little bit too much fun and not being a Christian back then for me, the other people are having fun where those are like this is party central. Yeah, they're a different kind of fun. Yeah, and so you're right, we have now those you have to focus a lot more on some academics and that could be isolating too.

Alisa [00:13:36] Right, because you're choosing to invest your time and your attention in your priority of school rather than on your social circle.

Chris [00:13:44] And let's not also forget that that could also involve a relationship that you may have brought with you to college, you're spending time with them every weekend, you go away with them or see them, you know. That's a great point. And you know, like maybe even starting a relationship and your roommates are like, dude, what's up? You know, so I remember starting a relationships with the girl in the dorm that first semester I lived there and I was excited to live with my roommate. He's awesome, great guy, and we had all kinds of fun friends, but within about two months, you know, I started kind of getting used to this girl, started dating, and that kind of separated them out. In fact, my roommate kind of called me on it and was like, Gracie, man, you're always spending time with that girl. You know, well, I miss our time together, in essence, is what he's saying. Yeah, I know, but have you seen this girl? And he's like, oh yeah, I've seen her, but still being isolating. Stupid girl.

Alisa [00:14:44] But, you know, that's a good point also when we tend to focus so much only on our existing high school relationships and we keep going back to them that we don't take the opportunity to invest in new friendships, the new people that we're meeting.

Chris [00:15:02] I think people that are loyal might have a difficult time with that like, I have these friends, I want to keep them for life, I've known her since third grade, blah, blah. But that can lead to this isolation. What's another thing that you see going on besides social isolation like?

Alisa [00:15:19] Well, I think it can be really hard to adapt to a new environment sometimes, right? So all of a sudden, you're coming into contact with a whole new, wider array of diverse people. They have diverse viewpoints, different cultural backgrounds, different majors that they're going into. And so it can just be hard to accommodate. All this new information with new people, new expectations, new cultural social norms that you just didn't have in high school.

Chris [00:15:56] It's funny, it could be something, you know, big of course, like different views on very important things like religion or you know something you know that's powerful. Let's say today it's politics and all of a sudden you're like, well, it's different. My first one that was different was small. I remember this guy in Las Vegas, I met him, he helps me get a job at a great The restaurant? Like, get on the strip! And so, good guy, very influential, but I remember one day, he, we were sitting back there during work as busboys, right, very, very luxurious, expensive restaurant, people like Jerry Lewis, if you remember that comedian from Wagon, he would be in there.

Alisa [00:16:45] What a celebrity.

Chris [00:16:46] Okay, so anyway, we're in the back, you know, taking a small break and he has, I remember he, I liked him because he liked chocolate milk and so did I and so we would just, you know, drink milk or whatever. Well, one day we go back there and all of a sudden I see him put ice cubes in his milk and I went, what are you doing? And he goes, what? And he says, my milk's not warm and I go, but you can't put ice in a glass of milk. I was like, yes you can, and he's like Why not? And I'm like, because that's weird. And he goes, that's not weird. I go, what, that water's at death. It just blew. OK, something so small, he was like kind of offended. Like, well, I'll take him out if you want. No, no, no. I don't mean that. And then sure enough, within about two months, I'm putting ice cubes there. OK, anything different, we're exposed to these new cultural.

Alisa [00:17:38] Right, and I think also in adapting to that new environment, there can be a real fear of rejection, right, that, oh, people aren't going to like you, and that can tap in also into that social anxiety for a lot of people, but I'm so different, nobody's going to like me, nobody notices me, I'm invisible here, and so to really be willing to put yourself out there to take the initiative in building friendships. If you're so afraid of rejection, that can be a real stumbling block.

Chris [00:18:12] For a lot of people yeah, it could be very difficult and you have to really recognize that There is something to that fear right social isolation could resolve people will not like me I'll reach out be vulnerable and they'll reject me and it's like, oh my goodness So yeah, that could be hard and Lisa could be really hard for some a subset, you know that are introverted, right? Yeah

Alisa [00:18:35] It really can. It can be tough. And especially when you're sitting in a large lecture hall, let's say like sometimes you're intro to a psych class, even at a small private university can be three or four hundred people. So if you're going to a big state university, you could have, you know, 700, 800, a thousand people in one lecture hall. Right? And so that could be really hard to connect with that many people.

Chris [00:19:06] Yeah, and they're not a lot of people they're going to want to, A, raise their hand, talk, make themselves known, most women just will never speak and that's normal. But you can also then find to be isolating like, oh my gosh, I don't know anybody in here and they all, everybody else seems to have friends. Those two all know each other, these guys always come in together, they're always I can feel like I'm by myself.

Alisa [00:19:28] That's tough. That's really hard.

Chris [00:19:31] Yeah, so, you know, let's real quickly to write that personality differences that we all have.

Alisa [00:19:38] Yeah, like if you're really shy, you're just naturally shy. That is so hard to put yourself out there to go take the initiative. It's so much more comfortable to sit, be quiet, and unfortunately the outcome of that is that you're gonna feel invisible. You're gonna fill alone.

Chris [00:19:56] Shyness, most people do experience this, not to an extreme, but it's hard in new situations. You weren't shy, you weren't introverted, and yet you felt this. So tell us a little bit about that. Did you have any, did you go, okay, I tried to reach out to people or I'm just going to be me or I am just going to, and it was hard.

Alisa [00:20:19] Yeah, you know, even as an extrovert, it's a little intimidating to walk into, you know you're moving into a new environment, you're going from high school to college, which can already be a little intimidating and scary. And so, you're meeting new people, putting yourself out there, risking that rejection. Even as an extravert, that was still tough for me.

Chris [00:20:47] And imagine then multiplying that by many when you are not extroverted, right? The shyness has gotten me places or maybe not shyness, well, no, a little bit. And then you're not comfortable yet in who you are and what you stand for and what you're going to be. Okay, Lisa, those are some things. Anything else that you would say is another cause?

Alisa [00:21:09] Yeah, I would say one other thing might be like a lack of time and energy because you're just so busy. I mean, oftentimes you're taking 15, 18 units. You may be working part-time. You're studying. You're trying to manage all these different relationships. You still want to interact with family if they're close enough by. You're trying to connect with new people. And you're just so tight, and you've worn out, because I remember, especially living in the dorm, or it seemed like all through college, never ever went to bed before 1 a.m. Did you? And everybody was up that.

Chris [00:21:48] Everybody was up late and it was loud for, you know, poor people that wanted to go to bed at 10. You know, they either got out of that or – Oh, there's no way. Yeah, you couldn't do it unless you put in headphones or earphones or earplugs, No, I remember. And that was also the social time when people would get together. But you would also feel like, wow, everybody's doing the same thing, having fun, and here I am.

Alisa [00:22:12] That you're just worn out sometimes and you just need rest or you need time apart. And so that can really hamper the ability to form new friendships.

Chris [00:22:21] Good, good, good. Well, I think those are some of the keys. Now, let's talk a little bit about what would you do and what advice would you have for, you know, parents of college students who are struggling with this. You know, I'll think of those that are themselves going through it or went through it. Or maybe even as adults are like, how do I reach out? First of all, I'd think Lee's Well, I remember what solved my loneliness issues was transferring to another school and moving into the dorms my sophomore year instead and I knew my roommate and we immediately started bonding with the guys on the floor and that right there was awesome and I felt Like, okay. This is Garns, this is what it's like, but some people don't have that, so.

Alisa [00:23:16] Right, but we would say, I think what you're saying is if that all possible, if it's financially feasible and you have the option to either live in the dorm or live at home, I would definitely come and live in a dorm or the apartments on campus or something where there's a group of students that are all living together.

Chris [00:23:36] Perfect. Second thing that many universities do very well is they have a mix, most universities do, of on-campus students, that is those who live in the dorm, and off-campuses, those who are in. And many universities have like a particular location for those that commute. Find your university, Biola has one, we have a commuter student lounge. It's so cool. It's beautiful too. Many of these places do have social events. Times of gathering for meals, other events that they do together that are designed exclusively for those that commute into school. So go to your university, talk to somebody and find out, hey, where do commuter students, what do you have for them? I guarantee you, your university knows about loneliness, social isolation, introversion and commuter students and that mix. Is something they're trying to go, all right, come together with people that you know and like. So, and find that place where you can fit, even if you're a commuter student, right? And in the dorm, be willing and able to start reaching out and trying, you know, these groups that like, ah, these people share this and.

Alisa [00:24:52] Well, that's a beautiful thing about college, too, is that there's so many groups, usually on campus, that either the affinity is a hobby that you enjoy doing. It could be athletics. It could... It's got academic areas, right? It could social clubs. It could ministry clubs. There's all sorts of clubs on campus. And so, check out those clubs that are available and get involved. Pick one or two or three to go visit, try them out. And then hone in on one or two. I wouldn't probably do more than that because then you just start, you're a mile wide and only an inch deep. So pick one or that you could really focus on.

Chris [00:25:34] Yeah, and sometimes, you know, you don't know anything about, let's say, the group that are interested in politics. And you're like, well, okay, but my friend is going there. Someone invited me. Yeah, go check it out. Go try. You might actually find a new interest. But Lisa, that takes some initiative. And I think that's another big thing that a person needs to get over is, okay. Yep, I'm going to risk being vulnerable. I'm gonna risk being rejected. But taking the initiative may be one of the hardest but the best things you could do.

Alisa [00:26:09] Yeah, I think when you're talking about taking the initiative, it could be just starting and initiating a conversation with somebody. I mean, imagine that you're walking into class and you always see that person sitting alone. They never talk to anybody. What if you go instead of sitting where you normally do, why don't you go sit by that person and just strike up a conversation, introduce yourself, ask them, you know, what's your major, where'd you come from, you know. Why are you taking this class? And just begin the conversation. Or maybe it's somebody in the cast that you see sitting alone. Well, you take the initiative. Go and sit down and say, hey, do you mind if I join you? Are you sitting with anybody? Hey, me either. Can I join?

Chris [00:26:56] Yeah. Hey, so if you want a practical thing on this, ready? We have created two things. One, this very common saying now among us at least, at least here at the center and we talk about is it's better to be interested than interesting. Too many people, too many students are like, oh my, I just have to be interesting. I'll attract more friends or I need to, you know, perfect this joke I have, or I needed to think about how to do this, or and one of the things that you just suggested is, hey, just be interested, go ask questions. I love that. So A, it's better to be interested than interesting. B, take the initiative, find out. If you want, we have a list of questions you can ask people, right?

Alisa [00:27:41] We actually have a really great resource called, I don't know, something about great open-ended questions. I forget, for different kinds of situations. You can find that on our website. You sure can, and download that. We have another resource called It's Just Coffee, where if you see somebody that you might be interested in that you think is cute, that you'd like to get to know a little better. Well, you can just take these little questions and, hey, I'm not asking you to get married. You just seem like a really cool person. I'd love to get to know you a little better. Would you just like to go grab coffee sometime?

Chris [00:28:15] Yeah, we call it, it's just coffee. In fact, we require it. We have about, oh, I don't know, a hundred and some students in one class every spring. And every student is required to go and ask, two people out, not ask them out, but just go ask them to have coffee. And they take a questionnaire thing with them, saying, I have to do this for a class. Would you mind go getting coffee? It could be really cool. Or at least, I love these. One more, go ahead with this idea.

Alisa [00:28:43] Yeah, with the Taken Initiative, it might be the Takened Initiative to connect with a small group. Maybe you take the initiative to start a study group of people in your class, and you just invite people. Hey, you want to join our study group?

Chris [00:28:59] Yeah, I love that

Alisa [00:29:01] Maybe a Bible study, maybe a group just going out to the movies or something, whatever activities you're doing. Be the initiator and invite other people because so many people are just waiting to be asked.

Chris [00:29:15] Yeah, and they would love that. That sounds awesome. Well, you know, when it comes to money and marriage, we all want clarity and confidence, right? And especially unity with spouses, right. I think Lisa, that's why we get to work personally with Colby Gilmore of Blue Trust.

Alisa [00:29:37] That's right, Colby Gilmore, along with other Blue Trust certified wealth strategists, offers personalized, biblically-centered financial planning and investment management services no matter what your income level is.

Chris [00:29:51] Lisa say that title twice blue trust certified well strategist. That's a tough I'm not sure I could I know so they put day do put clients best interest first and they don't sell financial products I love that about them

Alisa [00:30:03] Me too. And you know what? We highly recommend Colby Gilmore and Blue Trust for anyone looking for both financial unity with your spouse and opportunities to increase your wealth and your generosity.

Chris [00:30:15] Yeah, so if you guys want to check out ronblue.com or reach out to Colby Gilmore at colby.gilmore at ron blue.com that's colby dot gilmore at rong blue dot com i think you guys will be glad you did. Yeah, so this idea, at least take an initiative with, you know, that idea of being, you know, it's better to be interested than interesting. We have these resources, you know, just copy. I remember we were at a school, let's call it Berkeley, and we were speaking and we're talking about the psychology of relationships and, you know, communication ideas about relationships and this place was packed. You know, we got invited to go up there. It was awesome to speak to the students. You know, at the very end, they didn't know we were Christian, you know, and had a biblical worldview. To the very and, we told them. And it went great. In fact, we were invited back the next year. It was way cool. Well, first kid came up afterwards. We said, hey, we'll take questions. We took some from the audience, and then we said, if you still have questions, come on up. First kid came and I figure, well, just told them we're Christian. We're here at Berkeley. They might kind of, you, know, rebel, get a little bit against that. But the first kid came out Muslim kid and I'll never forget what he asked, you know, I thought he was gonna blast me, you know. He stood up there, looked agitated, a little bit stressed, a little bit nervous. I say, all right, bring it on. What's up, dude? And he goes, yeah, I got a question for you. I'm like, okay, go ahead. And he says, yeah. I don't know how to talk to girls. And I remember thinking, oh my gosh. All right. Well, all right. I can handle that one. I'll tell you what. Here's my best piece of advice, a lot of us and you know, when you're in college, you're trying to make friends and you don't know how and I told him it's better, I told them the phrase, it's better to be interested than interesting. And you know what that means is you go out, ask questions, talk to them. You don't have to be, oh, sometimes we try and have the perfect response and we have to have perfect stories and we got to carry the conversation. And this struck him and he just kind of like his eyes got wider and he goes First of all, he says, I can't talk to girls very well and I go, oh, are you an engineering major? And he goes, how did you know? And I said, oh I'm just a lucky guy, you know, I'm from Berkeley. And he says yeah, I am. I go okay, so it's better to be interested. And I go do you know anybody in here that you can maybe go try this out with? And he looked around the room of two or three hundred people that are now dispersing and he goes well, I know that girl back there. I go go try it Alisa, I'm not kidding, 15, maybe 20 minutes later, I'm still answering questions up front. That kid is still talking to this kid. They're still going. And they're still talking. And I'm like, there it is. And you know, he's married today to her. And no, I have no idea if he is or not. Wouldn't that be a cool story? But at least 20 minutes, later someone who says he doesn't. Know how to talk to girls is still talking to that girl simply by employing one of these techniques of just going asking good questions yeah questions what's another thing we can do then if we feel some of these isolations and we feel like we're maybe not designed for this and all right we get that what's what's one another recommendation real quick What'd you get?

Alisa [00:33:47] Well, I think, like we were talking about, that coming away to college for the first time could be that time, kind of that do-over, that start-over. And this is a perfect time to really be authentic and really show who you are and being true to yourself of who you are, the things you enjoy, your likes, your dislikes, your hopes in your dreams. Because there are so many new people out there. You are bound to connect with people who really click with you, you click with them, and they love you for who you are, not for who your faking to be. And so really just be yourself. Venture out there and be willing to be vulnerable, be authentic.

Chris [00:34:35] I love that. So this kid that I mentioned before, Jack, he was just so fun, so engaging. But really what it was is because he recognized you, said hi, you know, and but he would talk to you. And I remember thinking, okay, I like that. And he would bring out, so how What are you doing today? What's going on with you? You know, like, ask. And it made me feel like, okay, I can share with this guy. And we had a lot in common. Unfortunately, he liked the Eagles, Philadelphia. I was a Bronco fan, but he turned out to be this great tight end, and we actually went 6-0 in our intramural debut. Well, I lost in the quarterfinals, but that's another story. But all that to say, I remember thinking, all right, find that person. Who brings out that kind of best in you, that person that you want in me and hang out with them, do what they want. If you're like, I click with that person, like, hey man, let's, I love this interest in this game or you know, this sport or this hobby or this instrument or this study, area study. It'd be fun to get to know you more.

Alisa [00:35:46] Yeah, and you remember that old TV show that, it was really big, like in the 80s and 90s, called Cheers. And part of the theme song of that TV show was, you want to go where everybody knows your name. Nobody wants to be invisible, right? And so one of the ways that you can make friends more quickly is by remembering people's names and then calling them by name. Time and again, yeah, time and again as we travel, we meet people, sometimes we reconnect in different places. And it's, I find it incredibly refreshing when somebody remembers my name that I haven't seen in a long time. And I also notice that when I remember other people's names, they are really taking them back and genuinely, appreciative, like, wow, I can't believe you remember my name. And you're going to be, of course I do. But to really make the effort to ask their name, repeat it a couple of times when you meet them, and then call them out the next time you see them across the room, or you sit down, remember their name and their use it. And nobody wants to be invisible.

Chris [00:37:04] Nah, it's great, so when you are being interested, take note of it, right? And you're asking him questions and go back, write him down, make a note, you know, like, all right, this goes cool, I remember this. And he talked about, you now how his brother is doing this-wise, I'll ask him.

Alisa [00:37:18] I was brothers next to remember the details. Maybe write them down after you've connected with somebody for the first time I remember hearing a story somebody whose dad did this they kept a little notebook with them and you can keep a note on Your on your iPhone or something But they would write down the person's name where they met them and one or two things that the person mentioned and then he would review them every now and then, and then the next time he ran into that person, like if you know you're gonna see him in class, you know that you could see him in church or at the gym or something like that, they would, he would remember their name and then would remember to ask about those one or two things. And people loved him. They just thought he was the most wonderful, friendliest, like, oh boy, he makes you feel like you're the only person in the room.

Chris [00:38:09] Yeah, that's great. Yeah, the only caution at the extreme is a word that we use called stalking. Do not get to a point like, hey, by the way, I looked at every one of your Instagram to post and I think God's calling us to be married and like, I don't even know you. Yeah, don't do that. No, no, yeah. So, we're not talking about that. You know, I do remember Lisa the of a name one time in my class. You know, I have to get to know so many names. I work at it, and I work it because of that. I know it's important. But sometimes, if I meet somebody for the first time, I'll just say something like, hey kid, nice to meet you, you know? And I say, hey kid how you doing? And this guy goes, I'm not a kid. And I go, oh, no, I just kind of call everybody that. I'm sorry, he goes, but I'm like 18. I go no, you are, you're right, my bad. You're a little too serious. So anyway, I got to know his name and that helped a lot. So okay Lisa, let's wrap up with one last thing that you would do.

Alisa [00:39:12] I think it's the, if you find that you're struggling, if you are really not connecting, and you're feeling just overwhelming that loneliness, one of the options is to don't be afraid to seek help. Go to seek support. There are all different departments on campus for this, but like here at Biola, we have the Center for Marriage and Relationships where students can get, and in fact, you don't even have to go to this university. Right? Anybody can call and set an appointment and do it by Zoom, or you can come and meet with a trusted, trained professional to talk it over. There's somebody that can kind of coach you, help you come up with some strategies that can be a good sounding board for you. Maybe give you some things to think about or consider of how you might try a different approach. And somebody that just can help you reframe it like we were talking about at the beginning. Yeah, you're experiencing these tough situations, but you know what? Actually, if you approach it from this different mindset, it could really be an opportunity for growth. And so, sign up for one of those things. We call them free relationship advice. You can go on our website at cmr.biola.edu and click on the free relationship advise, and we have appointments, we have marriage and family therapists, We have pastoral care and counselor. Chris and myself available, but you can come by the office and see us in person, but it's free. You get a whole hour for free.

Chris [00:40:48] And I think, yeah, it's why we exist is for that. We tend to see students all the time with that. One final note, if you are not in this area, if you're listening in Michigan and Florida or somewhere else, or your child's at school somewhere else. There are resources there, at least, you know, student development. It might be called student affairs. It might an RD. You know, it might be the president of a particular club, reach out, talk to somebody, even, you know, many faculty and staff actually enjoy going out to coffee or hanging out with the The student says, hey, doctor, professor, whatever, would you like to get coffee sometime?

Alisa [00:41:26] Yeah, we just had, in our relationships class, we just have three of the gals that invited me and two of our other professors to join them for coffee. That was just a couple of weeks ago.

Chris [00:41:37] And you can do that, just reach out, do these things, and you can start kind of turning these challenges into opportunities.

Alisa [00:41:48] And you know, Chris, I think I would really encourage people as we wrap this up, not only don't be afraid to reach out and get some support, but I think the very first place that we would start is praying for your friendships, praying for relationships, asking the Lord to prepare the way before you to set some divine appointments with certain people that He would intend for you to have some really deep. Profound and meaningful relationships with in college and so trusting the Lord with that and inviting him into that and asking for his help. He delights to do that.

Chris [00:42:29] Not only is that so cool, in the Old Testament, at least, there were two people that God called friends. One was Abraham, who was the other one? It was Moses, right, all the friends. In the New Testament, the most powerful, I think one of the most power verses of all, John 13, 34 and 35 says, no longer do I call you servants, says Jesus, but friends, right? For, and think about it. Here's the God, the creator of the universe, saying, you're my friend. At least I think your idea of praying, talking. God knows that. He sets this up. Friendship is important. A friendship with Him, it sometimes starts there. You find those that are like, I like this, you know Jesus, I know Jesus. That gives us all we need.

Alisa [00:43:20] And then pay attention throughout your day. See the times that God sets appointments for you with other people, that you just happen to cross paths. Don't overlook that, don't miss it. That Psalm 116 verse one says, I love the Lord because he hears and he answers my prayers. Because he bends down to listen, I will pray as long as I have breath. So.

Chris [00:43:47] But picturing got bending down to listen.

Alisa [00:43:50] And say, you need a friend, boom, I got your back.

Chris [00:43:53] Yeah, that's awesome. I love that. Great advice, great topic. At least there are more they can find on our website if you have interest in this. We've got the questions to intimacy. You can ask spiritual intimacy questions.

Alisa [00:44:09] Open-ended questions, great open- ended questions for different situations. So check out that website again at cmr.biola.edu and we really encourage you to share this podcast with a friend. Hit that like button. We really that we really appreciate that. Really helps our algorithms. Anything else

Chris [00:44:29] No, smash that.

Alisa [00:44:31] Pow, pow, pow pow pow. Do it right now.

Chris [00:44:34] Hey, it's been fun to join you, Lee. Great, great podcast, topic, we'll have more of these, keep listening, see you soon.

Mandy [00:44:44] We're very glad you joined us for today's podcast. For more resources on marriage and healthy relationships, please visit our website at cmr.biola.edu. We'll see you next time on The Art of Relationships.