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What It's All About: Relationship Advice with In-N-Out CEO

Dr. Chris and Alisa Grace pose for the cover of The Art of Relationships Podcast.

Chris: (Introduction) Hi there, and welcome to another Art of Relationships podcast! I’m Chris Grace.

Tim: And I’m Tim Muehlhoff.

Chris: We had the opportunity to talk with Lynsi Snyder, CEO of In-N-Out Burger a few weeks ago and we wanted to bring you into that conversation today.

Tim: After getting to know Lynsi just a little bit, we found her to be such a strong woman of faith, Chris. She has shared her experiences with divorce, difficult family situations, and how she has learned to prioritize her family while running a billion-dollar company. She’s also interested in resourcing other marriages that are struggling. Let’s take a listen.

Chris: Well Lynsi it's fun to see you again to visit with you. Can we just start with some things that are on your heart right now? When you start thinking about the world and the life that you are living, there are so many ways that you see God's hand. What are some unique ways or special ways that He has been real to you and that you get to see Him and walk with Him and know He's there? Is there anything that comes to mind when you think about, you know God has really been a special place with me and showing me some things? How would you answer that?

Lynsi: Well, His grace has just been made so real in my life that it has made my love for others grow so much and I feel just an overwhelming sense of love for so many people. Certain days I feel it more and it's just like, wow, I just feel God's love like pouring through me and I just want to pour it out and I want people to understand how much He loves them. I think a lot of people can get tied up with what someone's doing or what exact beliefs they have but his love is unchanging and I think that we can get divided over so many different things, it's sad.

Lynsi: I do feel He's really connecting a lot of believers right now from all over the world. I feel like there's just this movement of connection whether that be for the end days and just the persecution and people being unified, but I just feel the body of Christ really coming together in a lot of different ways. You just have those God moments where you're like, "Wow. How did we meet? How did God bring us together?" Where ministries connect to one another and just for example, I have felt called to go to Congo, Africa for a long time. I was just praying with a girl from my Bible study a couple weeks ago and we were listening to this song that was done by people from the Congo and it makes me cry.

Lynsi: So, she's like, "Oh, wow you really are called to go there." I'm like, "No, I know I am." I'm like, "I can't even talk about it." I'm going to cry more. She's like, "Well, let's pray for it." So, we started praying and this last Monday the guy from Congo came to our Bible study.

Chris: There's really no coincidence.

Lynsi: Yeah. He feels called to do ministry here and I feel called to do ministry there so it looks like our ministries are going to be connecting pieces.

Chris: So, what areas of ministry for you bring you just most joy and interest? Is that one something that involves travel and sharing the gospel or what is it for you?

Lynsi: I think with having four kids, the traveling piece is not as ideal for me. Although I do enjoy going different places in the world and just seeing we love the same God. We have the same relationship with Jesus where we're connected on so many levels, yet we live in such different cultures or different ways. I do feel really called to save lives, save marriages, save just people that feel hopeless or feel like they want to cut the church off because maybe they've done stuff and been treated a certain way. I have my own issues with the church and just things that we've kind of adopted over time to be part of the New Testament church when it's not.

Lynsi: So, I feel like I'm really a person that wants to grab those people that are not wanting to go to church. I do feel God continues to put people in my life that are having marital issues and I realize I posted something on Facebook and I don't even remember what it was, but it was something just with truth and relationships and I had a couple different women reach out to me that I haven't talked to in years and they both shared some very serious things going on and that made me realize, "Wow. Putting those things out there, those morsels of truth with scripture and just asking who's going through this? Who has pain in this area?" Just putting that out there, there are so many people that are willing to say, "Help me. Help me." I think that sometimes we're too afraid to offend people or be that real. People are going to want to back away from you, but I do feel that God has put me in a place to be bold and to hopefully help those people that aren't really sharing with someone.

Tim: That's great. Let's go back. You said two things that really struck me. One is grace. I think that's the heart of the New Testament church. We actually, with the Center for Marriage and Relationships, we actually did a whole conference called Grace Filled Marriages. Then I think about what you said about hope which I find so many couples, they just lose the hope and they think things are never going to get better. So, how in your parenting, in your marriage, what are some ways that you can infuse it with grace in practical kind of ways that will help you as you interact with people of all kinds?

Lynsi: With parenting and marriage. Wow. Both of them need a lot of it. With parenting, I feel like I use a lot of grace. So, sometimes my husband and I end up bumping heads a little bit with the discipline factor because I feel very strongly about discipline. I believe that it's so important. God disciplines those he loves. We are called to discipline, but I don't know if I err more on the side of grace. Then it's like, "Okay. Well, where do you find that balance? Because you have to hold them accountable and you have to show them there's consequences for their actions," but then sometimes you look at their heart and I believe that's what grace does. It looks at the heart and the why. If you're able to see this came from here, this wasn't malicious or this came from this place, you're able to break it down and maybe you still have consequences, but at least in your own heart, your heart towards the children you can see the grace in action when you go there.

Tim: But that's funny, my wife and I we sailed through the first couple years of marriage. We were doing great and then we had kids. Then you realize boy, we do have different parenting styles and the grace thing really was true. With us, was like Noreen wants these certain expectations and I just want to have more fun. Kind of because my dad and I had a strained relationship where it wasn't a lot of fun so I wanted to have fun. But you have to negotiate that, right? When you have two different views of what counts as what. So, how have you and your husband in those moments where you kind of feel like we're seeing this differently, how do you talk it out? What are some things that you guys might do?

Lynsi: Well, one thing I learned from actually the elder that we sought counsel from before we got married was if you ever are in disagreement, you don't do that in front of the kids. You need to back each other up and then go behind closed doors and discuss the areas of disagreement because your kids need a stable foundation. They need to see you in agreement. Otherwise, they'll go to the weaker link. They'll go, "Okay, well"-

Tim: She's easy [crosstalk 00:08:31]

Lynsi: Yeah. I think that unity is really important. I think that there's only been a couple times we messed that one up, but for the most part, we really agree on parenting. I think that that's such an important thing for couples to work out. If they are having huge disagreements on the style of discipline and what do you do? Do you raise your voice or do you say it firmly? Do you keep giving them second chances or do you stick with it? All of those things are really important. I just really suggest anyone has some difficulties there that they should totally seek counsel. Just go to some old school parents and see what they did and find out because today, i think today's culture is not really helping a lot of children. It's making a lot of selfish, entitled kids that get away with a lot and a lot of lack of respect.

Lynsi: So, we need some good parents. We need good parents out there.

Tim: So, I just want to point something out real quick that just struck me again. Chris and I are in a marriage group. We've been doing this group for how long have we had this group together?

Chris: Almost 10 years, yeah.

Tim: Yeah. That's crazy, but what you just said is so good that when we share our parenting struggles with each other, that's a wonderful thing when another parent says, "Oh, we struggle with that. Oh my goodness. We disagree on how much grace and stuff." It's so liberating to know that there's other people that struggle with the exact same things that you do. Because we've talked about spiritual battle before. You actually came to our class at Viola University and you talked about spiritual battle. I think Satan loves to isolate and get us to think you're the only couple that struggles with that. You're the only ones who do that. So, this group has been really liberating for us to sit back and say, "Oh, good. You don't know what to do with teenagers either," kind of a thing is helpful.

Lynsi: No, that's great. Yeah.

Chris: So, where do you turn to when things get hard and you have a question, do I go this way or that with maybe a specific issue and you're not sure, what's your source of do you just say, "Mom?" Do you turn to trusted friends? What do you do or do you go with the challenges that you face in parenting or even in marriage?

Lynsi: Well, with parenting, if my husband and I are maybe not on the same page, then we would seek counsel from the elder that counseled us. We would maybe talk to him, although there has been very few times, but there are some things here and there. Also with any marital disagreements or maybe some things that we want to work on. Same person. He's just very spirit filled and trusted and he walks the walk for sure.

Chris: Then of course our podcast would be one of the things you turn to.

Tim: I was going to say.

Lynsi: Well yeah. [crosstalk 00:11:56]

Chris: It hasn't been, but it will be. So, when you think about the challenges too of being just such a ... We talked about some personality stuff. You're a natural leader and enjoy that. What is that like to have that balance between being a wife, being a mom, running a company that you've been doing most of your life it feels like?

Lynsi: Yeah. Well, it's definitely challenging but it's also very fun. I love people. I love working with people. So, my job is I don't look at it as a job as it's just part of my life and my responsibility that God's given me and I love it. So, there's times where I have to pull away a little bit and give more attention to the family with needs there and I think that in my earlier years, that was an area I definitely struggled. It was trying to find a balance. Sometimes it was a little too work heavy and recently because of some custody issues, I've really pulled away from work to make sure that my family is getting the best of me and getting the attention they need.

Tim: Can we flesh that out a little bit? Because again, it's unbelievable what's on your plate. You give leadership to an incredibly successful business, so when you do decide I'm going to pull away, I think our listeners, we all struggle with that. Leaving work at work and carving out time for family so when you do say, "I'm going to do this," what are some practical steps you might take that our listeners could say, "Oh, okay, that's good to do?"

Lynsi: Yeah. I know it doesn't necessarily work for everyone, but I think anyone that can have an influence on their schedule can do a lot. I've made it a point to pick up my kids from school. Once I pick them up, unless there's a dire need to come back to the office which they actually love being here, they've left messages for our divisional meetings the next day and slip notes to people so they love being here, but usually go back home and it's family time.

Tim: Do you turn off the cell phone? Is there a no tech-

Lynsi: Oh. I'm not as good about turning it off.

Tim: Sorry. I didn't mean to step into that.

Lynsi: No, it's fine. I'm totally fine with being open and honest. So, I don't turn it off but we do have a thing at dinner. At dinner we leave the phones away, down. We don't have a set time, but throughout the evening, if we're hanging out, it's like, "Okay, let's put the phones down now." Because my older kids are 11. So, they're all into their phones now too. So, we try to just pull away from the tech for a while, but that is a huge problem today I will say for sure. It's very consuming. I think it affects relationships. It can really affect communication. I see that as a problem. Not so much for people that are older, but people that are growing up in that knowing that that's the way of life.

Tim: It's a balance. You don't want to ... I text with my kids. I think it's really opened up communication that we really haven't had. Just fun, goofy things, but also asking them, "Hey, how'd the test go?" Or, "How did your day go? How's work? How's grad school?" Things like that. So, I don't want to poo poo technology because I think it can be really helpful, but Chris, you're really good at this at finding the balance at it. You've talked about even technological fasts before. I think just to exercise that muscle. I think the dinner thing is a great example of that, but maybe even take a day or a half a day and say, "We're going to do a fast from this and kind of experience what that feels like."

Chris: Yeah. I was actually texting just now. Could you repeat that? I'm not quite sure what you just said. Lynsi, one of the things that you've done, I think that a lot of our students really appreciated was hearing something from you about what it was like to go through what life and then to process shame and guilt that and the students I think really responded when you shared a little bit about your journey. I know you did a great Ted Talk, or I mean “I Am Second” and it was just awesome, but the students just really responded to knowing that when they've gone through some difficult times, when you shared what it was like for you to navigate that and how to get beyond shame, why do you think that resonates so much with young people? Is it because they just don't know how to do that? They're still struggling? What's your thoughts on that? Have you found that to be the case that when you share about your story and your journey that really resonates with people?

Lynsi: Yeah. I believe… I think of a few scriptures, but just that the truth shall set you free. I think that a lot of times people that are dealing with shame and guilt are ashamed to bring it up. So, they're just kind of living with it and something like that that is in the darkness just continues to grow and it eats up that person's character, their identity. It starts to try to tell them they're something they're not. So, I think that me sharing, them seeing someone that seems happy, seems to be doing all right and then go, "Well, whoa. You went through all that? You did all that and you are okay now." I think it provides hope. I think it gives people permission to go, "Whoa, I can just share this stuff. It's okay. It's not going to ruin me. Maybe I'm going to feel better." So, just opening that up where people can share. Is it James 5:16. It says, "Confess your trespasses to one another so that you may be healed. For the prayer of a righteous man heals much," that's so true.

Lynsi: Because people don't always look at guilt, shame, and fear as sins, but they are and now you've got a sin on top of the sin and the enemy is just capitalizing on that. He loves it.

Chris: (Break) If you’d like to hear more on this topic, check out our website. We have a lot of resources on this very thing. For example, there is a video called “The 7 Qualities of A Happy Marriage” or a blog article titled “The Good News About Divorce.” You can find of them and more at

Chris: When Paul talks about in Romans, 5:3, he talks about our sufferings produce endurance and endurance character and character hope, but often times I think they miss that this suffering can actually be done for God's glory. There's a reason why you've gone through and I've gone through and we've experienced our experiences and as we navigate them differently, it comes out at the end of the day, he is the God of hope and it is for his glory. So, you've been able to turn a lot of things that you've experienced to God's glory. It sounds like one of your passions is also to help others be able to see that and to help fix or rescue them to see that progression.

Lynsi: Yes. Because I went through so much. If I did not have God in my life, I think I would have destroyed myself in one way or another. Knowing that there's so many other people in that place or close to that place that don't share how they really feel. There's Christians struggling with pornography, depression, anxiety. You name it. There's just so many things and it's like, "Okay, those are all coming from somewhere that's not being dealt with." Just asking for prayer in general is not going to get you the healing you need. You need to be transparent. You need to be open so that God can come in and do that work because that's where the light really shines on the darkness. I think that the enemy gets us to be so afraid of putting those things out there that we just stay in it.

Tim: Good for you for going public with it. I think it's one thing to experience that privately and to feel God's release and grace and deal with it on a personal level, but you've chosen to go public. I loved your I am second video. I thought that was really courageous to be that transparent. Were there any hesitations to do that? To put yourself out there in a pretty dramatic way and just talk about your successes and failures and things like that?

Lynsi: Well, I'm normally more on the private side. I've been real reserved as far as doing interviews. Let's put it this way. Out of the hundreds of requests I've received, there's only been a couple that we've answered.

Tim: Wow. Is that because we're your favorite podcast?

Lynsi: Well, I could probably say that since I don't listen to any other one.

Tim: We'll take it.

Chris: Way to go Lynsi.

Tim: We'll edit out the first part. We'll take that. No, but that was a major decision to do that. That was my first introduction to you was the I am second. I thought, "Wow, that's pretty powerful that you would..."

Lynsi: There's two different sides for me. There's my business life and then there's my faith and his kingdom. So, the kingdom one goes everywhere for me. That horizon is limitless. But as far as the business side, I don't want people to just come in and I don't want to be this business mogul where I'm this person. Because for me, I'm more open about my personal life because I want to help. I want to inspire. I want other people to have hope. I want to see God use the things that I've screwed up, I want to bring him glory where I know that he can use all those things because there's other people that need to hear stuff that can connect to it and go just like you were sharing in the class. They identify with some of those things. I thank God that he's able to use it because otherwise I think I'd be in a much different place.

Tim: Redeemer. Well, my wife was in that class. We co-teach this class for listeners. It's actually three couples we do it. Chris, you and your wife Alicia. They're the founders of the center. Then me and my wife and we alternate theologians. So, Noreen said this. "You've got to have Lynsi talk about this on the podcast." Remember we asked you this question and again, the class is undergraduate students and we just asked you what would you say to a person who is thinking about committing, getting engaged, pursuing marriage? What would be, based on your experiences, what would be the advice you'd give that person of how do you know you're really ... What would be the cautions as you interact with a person and things? You had some really good thoughts on that of what to look for and what to be worried about.

Lynsi: Yeah. I think there's some red flags that come up immediately for me. If someone has just come out of a relationship. I mean very recently or if they've just come out of divorce. I think there's time. It's not to put any limit on it because when I got divorced, I thought, "Oh my gosh. I'm going to have to wait years before I get married and I'm going to have to walk through the desert for years." I think it's so custom to each person because that's how the Holy Spirit works. That is the main check for a relationship is the Holy Spirit. I think that you have peace. I think other people that have the Holy Spirit have peace about the relationship and if there's concerns that other people around are bringing up, then hopefully, those people in the relationship are going to listen and accept counsel rather than reject it.

Lynsi: If they think they've got it all figured out and they're pushing away counsel I would say that's a red flag because they see that as a love need being met and they're going to guard it and protect it like a dog with its bone. I know because I've done it. So, I think that just people being whole before they go into a relationship. Someone says, "Well, how do I know if I'm whole?" Well, are you okay being alone? Are you okay being alone or do you always need to be in a relationship? Because that was a huge issue for me because of the absence of my father when I was a teen and then him passing away. There was that love need that I had from ... I wanted my dad, but I couldn't have him so I was drawn to guy friends and having a boyfriend and then I had a huge fear of loss of love.

Lynsi: I remember in earlier relationships, it was like I didn't want them to even leave town or go somewhere because I thought, "Well, something is going to happen to them." So, people that come off needy like they can't be apart. Have that co-dependency. They do everything together. I will say, my husband and I are best friends and we love being together. We love doing things, but at the same time, I love that he might fall asleep before me and I have time by myself. I think it's healthy for people to have time alone, time with a man connecting with another man. Women being able to connect with other women because we're created differently. We are. I think that God has created us to be so relational and he wants the body of Christ connected and woven together. That means not just a husband and wife or a boyfriend, girlfriend. He wants the body of Christ to be connected and working together.

Lynsi: So, I think that's where we can lean on those people to see if our relationship is healthy before we go and get married.

Tim: No, that's good stuff.

Chris: So, what advice do you give? We will sometimes talk to students who just say that they are dating someone who maybe doesn't share the same faith they have. They maybe not quite as religious or they're not quite sure they're a Christian, but they really love this person. What advice would you give for a person who says, "I just want to be in a relationship. There's maybe a little bit of neediness. In fact, I'm willing to overlook even this big difference." Share your heart with them and what do you think?

Lynsi: Well, if they are a Christian, then I think scripture is pretty clear we're not to be unequally yoked. One of the things I loved about meeting my husband is I knew right out the gate that he wasn't a fixer upper. My other relationships had some of those qualities about it. I think women, we're just strange. There's not a manual that you can reference, but we get this thing in our mind where oh yeah. That'll change. I can change him.

Tim: You can change him. Yeah.

Lynsi: No problem. I got that. No. No, that doesn't happen.

Tim: But that's so good for our listeners to hear though. I think there is this attitude. We see it in film all the time. You get crazily different people and it's like, "Okay. I'll change her. I can change her." That mantra and in the movies they do change. That's really the scary thing is in the movie, you do see these radical changes but I love what you're saying is listen, if you know this is going to be a massive fixer upper, it just fundamentally isn't going to work.

Lynsi: Right. Yeah. I think that I like to call it the justification relationship. Where again, I've done this one also, where well yeah but don't they still struggle with this or don't they do this? Yeah, but once we get married they're not going to. Once we have kids, they're not going to and they said they're going to stop or if it's just going out drinking with the guys or something like that and they deem that as all kinds of people do that. That's okay. You just start justifying all of these areas that really are not healthy and it's crazy. It is crazy the way it happens but it happens. It seems so innocent.

Tim: I would add one more to that list. Here's the one we get. Well, he's kind of Christian. She's kind of Christian.

Lynsi: Raised Christian.

Tim: Raised Christian. Then it's like yeah but you're going to do a three legged race with this person the rest of your life and do you really want to be dragging that person and always saying, "Hey let's go to church? Hey, why don't we do a family devotion?" Really? Do you want to do that the rest of your life? Have that unequally yoked when it comes to passion for the Christian life?

Lynsi: It's painful. It's very painful.

Tim: And tiring.

Lynsi: Yeah. It is. It ends up being lonely and marriage is supposed to be a partnership and a loving relationship where people are intimate. It's supposed to be the most intimate relationship next to our relationship with the Lord. So, when you're not able to see eye to eye and stand on the same platform together, it's sad. It's really sad. I think that someone in that position maybe they become a Christian after they've been married so, that's probably a lot of people. The body of Christ has got to stand with those people and give them hope and pray with them because there's many cases where the other person is won over and becomes a believer because of the person that prayed and prayed and prayed and believed, but you definitely don't intentionally enter in to a relationship that's like that. Why store up all of that pain and really just a life that is not going to be the best God has for you?

Tim: Yeah. That's so well said.

Chris: So, Lynsi, you're finding sometimes people are showing up in your life and you're having an impact when you're able to talk about your journey and other things. What are for you, when people respond to a little bit of your story, what do you think is for them, what are they struggling with most today are you finding out? You used to talk about marriages that are struggling in certain relationships and is there something that you're seeing more and more of that people or couples are really battling or fighting a particular area?

Lynsi: Yeah. Unfortunately, I feel like a lot of men are not standing up and being the spiritual leader in the home. Why that is, I think the enemy has been doing a work for a long time. A lot of divorce. A lot of single parents. A lot of the culture too of teaching this pride and you've gotta make your living and so some of that comes before the spiritual relationship and being a leader in your home. Then if there's any unresolved issues like whether it's parenting or past or just issues in the marriage that haven't been worked out, then that stuff just is kind of swept under the rug and creates that distance between the two and men, the person might retreat and find more acceptance and productivity at work. So, then they're escaping there rather than working on the relationship. So, yeah. Satan has been using strongholds of the flesh since the beginning.

Tim: Those footholds. Just those little it's okay to go to bed angry. We'll get to that. I'm harboring a bad attitudes toward you so I'm not as cheerful as I usually I am when I'm with you. Slowly Satan just loves to get that to be a habit. Then habits turn in to be cemented. Now you've got bitterness. I think he's been doing that and we would go back to the technology thing. I think we're crazy busy and so I can't get to it right now. I can't deal with this. We gotta deal with the kids. We gotta deal with this. Then pretty soon, we're always on the back burner. Then that's where the footholds.

Lynsi: Yeah. In Christian homes I think it's so important that we get our priorities straight because I think a lot of people want to go and put the kids first but we have to understand that God comes first and then our marriage is supposed to be next because that is the foundation for your children to stand on. If you do not have that strong, your children are not being set up for the best for their future. Because you modeling that unity, that love, that connection, all of those things are going to project right in to the type of person they pick for themselves. I think that it's very common for us like you said to get busy and just go, "Oh, well let's just do what the kids want to do." Oh, you haven't had a date night in a year? Really? That's not going to be good for your kids either.

Tim: No, that's so true. That's why I gave up modeling. It was the travel. I was in the Cayman Islands one weekend. Why are you laughing? No, but I think that's so good. We talk a lot in our marriage conferences about the romantic affair which could be pornography, it could be a Facebook affair. I think what is hurting American marriages is a family affair. Where the kids are always first and then we had three kids who played sports. It was insane. Pulled in different directions every single weekend and then Monday comes and you're back at work. It's like, "Oh, yeah. I'll get to our relationship next month or when the off season." There is no off season anymore. That's I think what you were saying is you gotta put that marriage first for the sake of the kids even.

Lynsi: Yes.

Tim: Yeah. That's good.

Lynsi: Yes and the other thing is I don't know some parents just turn off this reality that their kids aren't going to be with them forever and the relationship when the ring goes in the finger is supposed to be as long as we're on this earth. However, your children, you're waving goodbye to and sending them off and hoping that you've set them up to be responsible adults that know the Lord, but then you're left with that person standing next to you waiting and I think about that because I've watched a lot of people send their kids off to college and then move. I'm always trying to keep perspective. I love my kids, but I've gotta set them up to be ready to go because I'm not going to be with them forever. That's why again the priorities and the perspective and making sure your marriage is strong for them because it's going to need to be strong when they leave. You're going to need to know what to do with that person there.

Chris: Lynsi, on the fun front, let me just ask this question: favorite secret menu item at In-N-Out for you. Do you have a favorite?

Lynsi: Okay. Let's see. Well, I definitely like the fried mustard. So, I don't do animal style, but I do fried mustard. Yeah. I love that. Then the sliced chilies. I get those for my fries, on my burger. Oh yeah. Just confetti of chilies. I love them. I love them.

Tim: Now, do you still eat fire? This came out in our class that you said-

Lynsi: Oh yeah. Different kind of fire.

Tim: Yeah. Different kind of fire. So, do you still do that?

Lynsi: I do. You know what? Maybe this goes into that how I do it all because it's like burning off stress.

Tim: Literally.

Lynsi: Just putting the fire in your mouth. Yeah. So, I'm actually I've learned to do a few different fire tools and stuff so eating it is one aspect of it, but there's a staff, there's fire fans, there's fire sword, there's palm torches. There's all these different things. My son is actually kind of interested in the staff. I'm like, "Okay, we'll do this not lit for a long time." Yeah.

Chris: Favorite hobbies then. Do you love certain things like that? I know you used to love drag racing and still yet.

Lynsi: Yeah. That's actually I guess one of those examples of just the priorities and being so busy. That's something I've kind of laid down for a while. I love it and it was a nice way to break away from everything and the kids loved going and loved cheering for me and helping out, so I've laid that down for now. I'm sure I'll be back when things calm down but do love drag racing. Love muscle cars.

Tim: What's a muscle car? Can I just ask you what a muscle car is? I don't think I know what a muscle car is. Can I be transparent with you? I was a model remember? So, I think there's a problem with models. Maybe they don't go together. What's a muscle car?

Lynsi: Well, I would say the muscle is referring to the engine and it being a good size engine.

Tim: Okay. So certain kind of engine. Okay.

Lynsi: Yeah. Then the car is usually an older car. My favorites, I would say the muscle car in their prime was 60s and 70s. 60s and 70s were the best.

Tim: That's what I was thinking 60s. Mid 60s. That was the height of muscle cars.

Lynsi: There's definitely a lot of good ones in that year.

Tim: Okay.

Lynsi: Yeah.

Tim: That's great.

Chris: Lynsi, things that you see as God doing in the future. Hopes and plans and dreams that you have. Anything on the horizon? Thinking this is something I see maybe happening in the next couple of years or I'd love to see how God can work in this way? Do you have any future dreams or hopes or things that you're like, "I want one day to do?"

Lynsi: Well, my big focus, of course, is just ministry and growing that. I think that our ministry, Army of Love, is really taking roots in a lot of different places. We have people in Africa that we're getting books translated, we're connected with quite a few people. Different places that have signed up for our modules and want to volunteer and want to be on the front lines. The body of Christ. So, I think that that's one of those things where we're just trying to invest time and giftings and just make sure people are getting connected and that we're just seeing that grow. It's interesting because when you look in the book of Acts where Paul, Peter, they're going to different cities speaking to different people, I don't see our ministry right now so much as going to different cities, but we're working with different ministries in different churches.

Lynsi: That's kind of like we're working with Teen Challenge. We're getting connected with their staff and going deeper with them and having regional staff meetings and because we're one, we're just we have such a strong pull. My husband and I both to addiction just helping because he lost his brother, I lost my dad. I just have so much love for them because I think that I see past their addiction and know that there's probably a wonderful person underneath and some of their own family members can't see that at that time. So, working with teen challenge and I kind of shared just how God's connecting people. We've been connected with a lot of other people. We just kind of recently got connected with Todd White and there's ... I can't think of them all now, but I just see God's hand working and people wanting to use Army of Love.

Lynsi: Hey, could you kind of come in and help? Could some of our people join? Internships and things like that.

Tim: Where can our listeners find out more about Army of Love?

Lynsi: Oh.

Tim: Oh, that's great.

Chris: It's a great manual you gave to us. The workbook you put a lot of time into that. It's well done.

Lynsi: It wasn't me alone. It wasn't me alone. It was mostly-

Tim: If you ever want to extend it to a ministry for professional models, call me. I could be your contact person.

Chris: You might be on the front page, on the cover.

Tim: We could incorporate muscle cars perhaps. Just thinking out loud.

Lynsi: I'll file that. [crosstalk 00:42:51]

Chris: Yeah. Just file that one. Well, Lynsi, thanks for joining us this time to share your heart and your passion for what you're doing. It's an amazing ministry you have and the way God is using you and even in ways you probably don't realize, but it's fun to be able to see that how he's a redeeming God isn't he? That takes all of our experiences and uses them for his glory and it's a great story you have and a great ministry. Great place that he has put you.

Tim: Yeah. Thank you for being on.

Lynsi: Thank you, guys. Could I share something with the listeners?

Tim: Sure.

Lynsi: Okay. I just want to share that as you've heard my story, I've had lots of failures and from adultery to smoking marijuana to drinking in my past. There's just been a lot of things that would seem to cut me off from God and church and being saved and restored, but he makes all things new and it doesn't matter what you've done, he can turn your life completely around and there's hope. There's not one person that should be hopeless. You should know that he's the God of the universe. He can do absolutely anything and you are just a beautiful canvas that he wants to paint and show you that you are valued and treasured.

Tim: What a great way to close.

Chris: That's a great word. That's a great word because he clearly has us engraved on the palm of his hand and he doesn't give up on us. Lynsi, thanks for sharing that. It's awesome.

Lynsi: Thank you.

Chris: It was good to have you.

Lynsi: Thank you.

Chris: (Outro) Well, we’re really glad you joined us for today’s podcast. For more resources on marriage and relationships, visit our website at

Tim: And we’ll see you next time on the Art of Relationships.