In this episode, Chris and Alisa Grace explore the all-too-common struggle of comparison—especially in the age of social media. They discuss why we compare ourselves to others, how comparison can become a trap that steals our joy, and when (if ever) comparison can actually be helpful. Drawing from social psychology, Scripture, and real-life stories, they offer practical insights and tips to help you break free from unhealthy comparison and embrace your God-given identity. Whether you're dealing with relationships with roommates, parents, friends, or significant others, this episode offers valuable advice to improve your sense of self and relational health.

Resources Mentioned:

• Blue Trust – Certified Wealth Strategists – Personalized, biblically centered financial planning and investment services.
• Understanding Your Spiritual Temperament (with Gary Thomas) – A podcast episode on how different people uniquely connect with God.
  
  

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About the Hosts:

Chris Grace, Ph.D., and Alisa Grace are passionate about helping people build and sustain healthy relationships. As leaders of the Biola University Center for Marriage and Relationships, they combine the wisdom of Scripture with scholarly research to offer practical advice and insights. Learn more about their work at cmr.biola.edu.

Mandy [00:00:01] Welcome to The Art of Relationships. This podcast is produced by the Biola University Center for Marriage and Relationships, let's get right into it.

Chris [00:00:11] Well, welcome to another Art of Relationships pod guy. Thanks for the great introduction there, Mandy, our wonderful host, and Lisa, we get to do a podcast, and as most of y'all have figured out, you can find it at cmr.biola.edu, but maybe you're finding it on Spotify and other places.

Alisa [00:00:32] Yeah, Apple, iTunes, YouTube, yeah.

Chris [00:00:37] So they're watching. Hey, I think one of the interesting questions we oftentimes get asked, Lise, is the notion of that maybe people are struggling, not happy in life, they don't feel like they've been treated fair, or things aren't just going well, right? You kind of get in this downward spiral of nothing seems good and I don't have a lot. But one person wrote and asked a little bit about well, it seems like when I would that comparisons Could be really hard for people especially our young people with social media, right? This person has more likes this person has a great influence. I want to be like that person, right I want do that. How come I haven't been able to do that and They're really getting into maybe, maybe something that we, we want to talk about. I think, and at least that's this idea of comparisons. Right. Um, you know, uh, I think it was Theodore Roosevelt that said comparison is the thief of joy. Yeah. Um, there are ways in which comparisons are good and there ways in which comparisons can really have some red flags to them. What do you think?

Alisa [00:01:56] So what do you think as a social psychologist, Chris, what is the root of that? Why do we tend to compare? Because this is something that is universal, every culture, every people group, every tribe, nation, so to speak. So where does that come from?

Chris [00:02:12] Well, well, first of all, we're social animals. I mean, this is, we were created to be in relationship with others. Our identity oftentimes comes from that very idea of relationships, right? Who we are. So as a social psychologist, we get, we re fascinated with this idea of how am I, how is the person involved in the group and how does, and impact the group, and how it is the group impact the person, their beliefs, their attitudes. So. The very premise of social psychology is foundational to what we study in humans, and that is this. We are just simply part of this socially evaluative world. We're part of being involved in a group. And we're always wondering, what impact do I have? Where do I fit in? Where do fit in.

Alisa [00:03:02] How can I say this?

Chris [00:03:02] Better. And we're always comparing with those nearest to us. But I think the difference today maybe from well definitely from let's say even a 50 years ago is that we are now comparing ourselves with people who aren't in our immediate circle all the time. The people we went to school with, our family members, our close friends, our church, our whomever. Now all of a sudden this The whole world is open to us. Look at this guy, he's always out there. Taking money, taking food to the homeless in Africa. How, I want to do that, how do I do that? How come I can't, you know, have this kind of a platform?

Alisa [00:03:43] Yeah, I think what you're getting at, and you touched on it just a few minutes ago, is that idea that one of the roots can also be the prevalence of social media. And when you look at social media, right, it's so curated. And for the most part, people are wanting to, I mean, you see PIP rolled using filters all the time. And so like what you see, what you hear is rarely the real thing going, right? When you see someone. You know, this is how I get my kids ready in the morning. This is what our family looks like getting ready. Every once in a while you see the reality of it where, you know, kids are screaming, homework's not done, that sort of thing. But we curate because we wanna put our best foot forward. We're not gonna put the photo out there where we have the pimple that popped out last night, right, or no makeup, or unshaven, or whatever. We want to look our best. We want be considered, you know, as we compare ourselves. We want consider ourselves as up there.

Chris [00:04:50] Yeah, and I think that's the problem, is because in the past, that comparison would be looked at. Someone would see you not looking your best. You know, you had a rough day. The kids aren't dressed very well. You're in your bathrobe. You drop the kids off, you know. And it's like,

Alisa [00:05:05] Welcome to life!

Chris [00:05:05] Well, yeah, and then, but what happens at that point was oftentimes you would just go home and people would kind of forget that interaction. Well, now people post things or show things and they last out there and they reach beyond that community.

Alisa [00:05:22] Comment and they're brutal. Social media can be absolutely brutal.

Chris [00:05:28] And I think one of the the pushbacks against that that you see are people that are trying to remove the filters You know take off the makeup and say hey, here's me. I just want to show you This is what I normally look like. This is who I am I'm just a regular person and and and sometimes they're not even Identifiable when they take off. The makeup in the outfits and and you know, and they're like this is what? I look like in fact, let me remove the filter from my camera right now and show you more And I think that part of the pushback is authenticity, right? Like, hey, we all are in this same game, and yet comparisons happen oftentimes with things that you just said aren't real, aren't reality, and so it can lead to this amazing problem with I don't match up. I'm gonna have to look like this, and I'll never look like that without a filter. Without everything being perfect.

Alisa [00:06:27] Without surgery. Yeah, if I think, yeah, it may never be.

Chris [00:06:32] Yeah. And so I think at least one of the things we have to do is recognize it's endemic to just being a human, right? We're part of these cultures. We're a part of this community. We want to, you know, we all want to do well. We all want be looked upon. We want to be loved. We wanna be liked, right, and we want to be admired and admired, right. So when you take those kinds of things, then we begin this attribution process in social psychology, which is, you now, we attribute positive things to people that have it all together! Right? That's why the comment like, oh, so that person looks like this. I'm going to attribute to them. They also must be smart. They must be kind. They must be wealthy. Right. And, and so we, we have these, what's called a fundamental attribution error. And it's this error that basically says that we tend to attribute two things or two situ to explain some cause like, why did this person, for example, Why did they mess up? Let's say they, let's take a sports example, right? There's all these people who will fail, somebody who will act out, let say in a sporting event. And yes, I saw one where in the WNBA, man, this Caitlin Clark gets massively felled. All right. Well, to attribute then what happened, a lot of people said, Well, it's because she was mouthing off. It's because she is, you know, not playing by the rules, whatever, others will attribute the negative behavior to something else, to race, to this is endemic to our, to our league. People get away with things and we're just trying to make it right. Okay. Comparisons, then, begin when we start looking at other people and attributing to them. Characteristics that come with things like, oh, they're not only have a perfect house, but what does that mean? Oh, their house and their kids are great. That must mean they're happy. That must means they're wealthy. That must, mean they found it. And I haven't, I, my kids don't look like that. My house doesn't look that. My kid doesn't play like that maybe I wasn't that good of a coach. Okay. So Lisa, when we start getting into these comparison, culture problems, it has just been exacerbated, right, by media, by social media and by the reach out.

Alisa [00:09:08] Mm-hmm by the entertainment industry. Yep. Yeah bison

Chris [00:09:13] That's exactly right showing what's good and healthy and this is the model of what you should be like

Alisa [00:09:18] And there's some other areas, really, where we struggle with comparison. It can be professionally, you know, gosh, why didn't I get that promotion? Or I've got to get this article published, you know, in a higher academia. The reality is you publish or perish. And it's got to be in the right journal that is peer-reviewed. And the more stringent, the more worthy, the better, right? You get those points, and you get the promotion. Or I've really got to do well in this presentation. Because all of my colleagues are watching. I'll be compared to my colleagues. So-and-so did really well last time, so I really got to measure up.

Chris [00:09:56] Yeah, and I think yeah, that's that's great, at least and I think what ends up happening is you have got to come to realize that you are never going to probably be the best at any

Alisa [00:10:06] Right, even in parenting. We do it all the time in parenting, right? That's right. And there's been our kids, how our kids compare. I'm gonna evaluate myself based on how my kid does against your kid in the ballgame or in the cheer competition.

Chris [00:10:21] Yeah, and you'll never match up to the best. So like you said, publish or perish. I can publish five, 10 articles, right? Thinking, oh man, this will get me ahead. This will get my tenure. Well, there's somebody else who's going to publish more and is going to be in a better place, right. There's a parent who's gonna win parent of the year award. You know, they're gonna volunteer more than you ever will.

Alisa [00:10:47] And, you know, I think one of the harshness of social media comes, boy, like I said, some of the comments can be brutal. Even if somebody put something benign up there, like, oh, hey, this is what we did, you know in our family, somebody's always going to be going on there and bashing you, or, you now, saying something nasty. And so you can really begin to internalize that. I guess. And then you start comparing yourself to other people, other people that are posting, and the comments, whether there were enough positive ones versus negative ones. And you mentioned one earlier, when we were talking about this that I thought that was really interesting. You were talking about when we compare on a spiritual basis. And you talked about when, even as a younger Christian, and I don't know that it's relegated to being just. A younger Christian, but in terms of how you did your quiet time and you felt some pressure because you're not necessarily a morning person, but you felt a lot of pressure because you – well, you talk about that. I don't want to tell your story. You talk about it. No, no.

Chris [00:12:01] Yeah, no, you know, it was just all the people that I wanted to be like, you know, because, you, I wasn't really raised in a home in which we did Bible studies or read the Bible at all, never went to church, never did any of that. And so when I started to, to find that that was important to me, to learn how to walk with God, to learn how, to, I wanted to learn the Bible, right? I wanted to, um... Give my life and become someone who walked with Jesus. Well, the people around me with good intentions would demonstrate for me what the standard were and what the standards was. You know, for whatever reason, the standard was the way you had a good time with God in the morning every day and you know. You know, it was really good if you could spend 15 minutes, but if you can spend an hour praying before you went to school, adore it. Wow, you're super Christian. Super Christian, or you memorize Scripture, or you did all your Bible studies, and, you know, often... Well, I think the unintended message that I was oftentimes receiving at that point was that I wasn't walking as close to God as some of these others, because I didn't like to get up in the morning and do that kind of thing. That is... I just was tired. You know, I'm a night owl. You know it'd be 7 a.m. And I had to go to something at eight o'clock. Well, there's no way I had the energy or the emotional strength. So what I would do is I would just get ready, you know, have cereal, kind of wake up, you know get dressed and go, you know to my thing at eight O'clock or whatever. And I'm gonna think, hi, how come I can't do what they do? They just got up early, I had a roommate. Man, he would just up at six then. And spend a whole hour, I'm thinking, all right, I can't do that. Well, the comparison notion really then begins where you're going, maybe my walk with God isn't as good. Maybe I don't love God as much. Maybe this spiritual thing for me is I won't really be as good as some of them are. I think I was smart enough and wise enough of studying enough social psychology at the time to go, yeah. Okay, there's something off here. So what I did instead was instead of letting that bother me, I just realized, well, hold on, God made me different. And he made me differ and I'm a night owl. So I think I'll just hang out with God at night. I had talked to him more, liked him more. At that point, that is, I felt more I could hear him at nighttime. And sometimes it was in a weird way, it was when I was reading something really cool, whether in the Bible or a different book. I'd say, okay, now I hear God, now, I can talk with him. Now, you know, part of his character was revealed to me in which I felt his presence, not at six or seven in the morning, but sometimes eight o'clock, nine o' clock at night in conversation with somebody or in reading a book. All right, so I think maybe a first principle when we deal with spiritual comparisons or life comparisons, you now, of all sorts. I think we have to start by going, hold on here, who am I? What am I designed like? Each of us are so unique and have so many gifts. I think Lisa, for you, you would have to go, all right, a self-aware Lisa would recognize that you have been given certain characteristics that are unique to you, that make you you, right? You love interacting with people. You love having fun with them. You know, if a friend does something really well and gets an accomplishment, you love to celebrate with them. You're fun to talk with because you get excited about the other person. Well, all right, let's take those gifts and use them. If you start comparing your cleanliness style and how clean your office is or how clean you room or your house is, well, you're not gonna do very well, right? Hey, what do you say? Yeah, well, I'm just saying because there's always going to be somebody that's better. That's true. But Lisa, what it means, I think what I figured out is, all right, to stop the comparison struggle, it's figure out who you are. What has God gifted you? God has given you a certain unique set of skills and characteristics. And a principle and it could think go figure that out first and then follow that That's where God probably is pushing you to go to what if that is? Here's a spiritual comparison as an example I would go and and sit in church and people would talk about oh my gosh. The service is amazing I love the singing. This was so good for me. I just I can't I can be here, you know I can't imagine not being in church. I can be here without experiencing God. It's so wonderful. And I'm like, all right, all, right, well, that's good. And the whole time I'm, like, I really, I didn't feel all that different this morning. I was more distracted by lots of things in church, okay. Spiritual or any other kind of comparison would go, what's wrong with me? That's messed up. How come I don't like church that much, to be honest? Instead, I think the question is, okay, they found God there. That's a great thing. Some people sense his presence in a service, in listening to worship music. I really don't that much. I just kind of push through it and you learn that about me. Instead, I need to find out, instead of going, well, I'm not that good of a Christian. I don't love God as much as they do. Like. Where do I sense and feel his presence? Then I wanna go there, right? For me, that's oftentimes contemplatively thinking, being, reading, spending time quietly, and I go, oh my gosh, God is here. He's in this place, and he's helping me to see this. We've had friends who said a church doesn't do it for them, but going out and serving other people and working with the homeless during that time. They sense more of God's presence or being in nature or just being out in nature. So we've talked about these spiritual temperaments here before. So maybe the first key to avoiding the comparison trap is by recognizing you. How has God made you? How has he gifted you? What are you good at? Um, maybe you're not the tallest person in the world and you feel like, I don't compare cause I'm so short compared to everybody else. Like, all right. But what has God given you that you are good at, that you do stop comparing yourself with that? Learn that, like this guy named Spud Webb, man, the guy was five foot eight, five foot nine. He was one of the best basketball players in the NBA. Could you imagine being five foot 8 or five foot 6 or even a little shorter than that and still dominating in the NBA? It's because he stopped trying to play a tall game and he just said, all right, I got an advantage. I'm gonna play this little game. And I'm just going to run around these people. And when I get a free layup, I'll take it. But he was awesome. And there were, so he took advantage. He would have been paralyzed if he was always saying, I wished I was taller. I wish I can't play that, you know, the, the average height in the NBA is six foot four, you don't, I'm a foot shorter than that. Instead you find out, well, hold on, how can I use this to my advantage? What else has God given me? So.

Alisa [00:19:55] I love that. So that's the idea of you kind of stay in your lane. You don't try and go in somebody else's lane and do what they're doing, but you take what God has equipped you with, how he has wired you, and you do that to the best of your ability and in a way that's submitted to God and let God work through that in particular. There There were a couple of verses that... That brings to mind like 1st Corinthians 12 where it's talking about the body has many parts and each one has a unique role Right. So, you know say to the eye gosh I wish we were all eyes because that's not going to give you a complete Helpful body right somebody needs to be the hands somebody needs the feet. Yeah, the hands can't be the kidney You may love what the kidney does, but if you're a hand and you're trying to do what the kidney does because you hold that up and in high esteem, then you're going to miss all the beautiful things that you can do as a hand in serving, in building, in creating.

Chris [00:21:00] It's a great verse. I love that. So what if in that example you were the tear and you're like, oh my gosh, I'm the tear in the body. Tears only happen when somebody is sad or depressed or messed up, right? I'm a tear. Fascinatingly enough, the tear has an amazing function because it's always full when people cry. It's full of these particular hormones that are flushing out the body of stress. Cortisol, like a stress hormone, and without tears, most of us would end up having, you know, a buildup of this cortisol that just really would allow for too much stress, right? And then you can also think, well, God, it's interesting, but what part of the body does God actually collect and store in a bottle? It's tears, says the psalmist. All right, so even if you're the the smallest thing... It's like, oh, but I'm nothing. I'm not an eye. I'm no even a finger. I'm a hand. I'm the foot. I'm at the brine. I'm like, yes. And the vital role you play is so essential to the wellbeing of the body. You just need to figure out what part of the body you are in the church or in life. So I think that's right, Lisa. I think it's a great verse that just pulls into question even the smallest. Part of the body is, you know, has this unique capacity to make it whole and complete.

Alisa [00:22:29] So let me ask you this, from your perspective then, is there ever a time that comparison can be good? That it can actually be positive or done well? Is it always negative?

Chris [00:22:43] Yeah, no, we have some great things, don't we, like that, right? You see a child growing up and comparing and wanting to be like their parent or wanting to be, you know, they want to model that, you, know, especially the young ones. Well, there are times in which comparisons are both shown, you now, outwardly, like they walk like and talk like, you see these little babies who are always imitating their grandma or grandpa and that part of this. Yeah. But here is what's interesting about that. Um, oftentimes comparisons are really good when we're watching and seeing other people behave and doing something that is, is a positive, like, um, you know, there's a family that we know that will work and they see somebody that's homeless, they'll go get him food. It's not the act of going and, and necessarily, uh, getting the food that, that, um, you know, you try and let's say, teach that to your kids, well, the kid is most likely if they're there is going to see that, catch that and go, okay, that's interesting. My parents have a heart for things or for people, and this is what they do. And I believe that kind of comparison is... I want that kind. I wanna do that one day. I want to be like that, right?

Alisa [00:24:17] Yeah, so yeah, it's interesting. It's almost like a positive peer pressure, would you say, where we might compare ourselves to others, not in a way that denigrates ourselves or denigrate our worth, but actually spurs us on to good deeds, right? So like iron sharpening iron.

Chris [00:24:40] Yep. I could see someone or hear a story about someone doing something. You know, like, you can watch, you know, a TikTok or an Instagram clip of somebody going out and let's say they're giving money or feeding the homeless, right? When they're a part of the picture, when you see their face, when they're like, look what I'm going to go do, watch, I'm gonna go get. Um, there's a lot to learn there. I want to do that, but it almost, I'd almost question the motive sometimes of those that show up on the video. Hey, it's me and check out our video. We're going to go feed this homeless dude. Like, all right. The, the idea, the motive is great. My comparison and the thing that motivates me like iron sharpens iron is when I see somebody do that. That's completely anonymous. You don't know who did it. You don't know how they gave. You see them doing this work, but it's not about them. It's about building up or doing something without seeking the approval of men, right? It's what you do that's anonymous. So it's a heart pus. Yeah, and so when it comes to comparison, I'm like, all right, which one do I want to be like? I'd rather be like, thank God, right. I don't want to the one that's out there. Oh, look what I do all the time. So, yeah, Elise, I think comparison. So we're talking about where you asked. What's a, what are some positive? Are the, yeah, I asked, are there some positive. Here's one in psychology that I think we can all take advantage of and know, and it's when it comes to happiness, people that are happy are more likely to report comparing themselves with the less fortunate in that, in this way. Now, it's something specific to this. You have Um, things going on in your life that are hard and difficult. Um, but people who oftentimes then can see the person that's even worse off harder, you know, their, their life is harder and they go, all right, I want to compare, not with the guy who's living in the perfect house with the perfect wife and kids and the perfect husband and all of these great, wonderful things in the ocean view. I need to compare and look at this person that's homeless right now or that's living, you know, day to day and go, wow, God, man, I've been given a law, which is the basis of gratitude, right? It's seeing the person that is worse off and recognizing, man I have a lot to live for because there's always someone worse off you can compare to. Always. I remember Lisa getting radiation treatment. And it was a brutal year, and I had to go in, you know, 28 straight days to get radiated. And I remember thinking, this is the worst. No one else has it this bad. I'm so sick. You know, feeling quite sorry for myself, you know having to go through this mess until I'm in there about ready to get radiation. The guy who's going right before, right after me, I can't remember on the machine, was getting radiated in the part of the body that I wouldn't wanna get radiating in. And he was getting ready and had to stick tubes in places where I wanted to want them to stick any tubes. And you could see that this was so hard on him. I said, so buddy, what are you in here for? You know, I want, hey, what do they got you for? And he goes, oh, they got me for this cancer. And I go, oh that's hard, isn't it? He goes, it's so bad and I don't wanna be, it's painful, I think I'm gonna quit. And then I realized, okay. Maybe I got a little bit to be grateful for, and it kind of changed a little bit my perspective, and I think that's the healthy comparison when we look at those that are less fortunate, and not in a way of standing above them, but away and going, oh man, I do have a lot. I do, I can be grateful for some things.

Alisa [00:28:43] You know, I remember you talking about that one time, and that really impressed that idea of comparing yourself to someone that has less than you. And I can remember when we bought our current house, it was, gosh, it, it was already 50 years old, had some original windows in the house, the, you know, The carpeting was 20 years old. The kitchen was at least 30 years old

Chris [00:29:12] In England, they would call that brand new but here in California, it was just called the old and busted

Alisa [00:29:21] But I can remember, there were times, well, we were moving into our house and we were assuming, oh, we're gonna move in, we're going to remodel, we are going to redecorate, we are gonna redo the pool. We had all these great ideas. We have this really cool creek that runs through the back of our property. And we had all of these plans for how we were going to landscape it and build a bridge, the kids could play on it. We have a pool, now the kids can play in it and everybody's water safe. And then three weeks after we moved in. Do you remember what we discovered? Oh.

Chris [00:29:56] Well, I'll never forget.

Alisa [00:29:57] That we were pregnant with number three. And so I had such a heart, just a real heart longing to wanna be home with this baby full-time. And our other kids were like in fourth and fifth grade. And I just really felt a longing that I don't wanna work. I wanna be able to be home full- time. And I'd always worked at least part-time or full- time up until that point. And so We just moved into this new house, and now we have this bigger mortgage payment, there's no way I'm going to be able to stay home, but you figured out a way, when I told you my heart, you figured a way that we could make it work. And we did, and we did. And the Lord was very kind to us and made some adjustments in your work schedule, or income kind of thing that, excuse me, that made it work. But during the next 20 years that we've lived in that house, I can admit there were times where I pulled up in front of the house in our car and I would just look at the house and I'd see the paint peeling. I would see the old busted windows where some of the caulking was coming out. I would where the roof desperately needed to be replaced. The carpet was driving me crazy because it's just this old green color of carpet. And there were times that that could really start to wear on me, especially when all the neighbors are redoing their yard, they're getting the new windows, they're getting the pull, they are getting this and that. And there was a point where I pulled up in front of the house and that feeling started to come across again of our house looks terrible. It's old and busted and woe is me. And I began to remember you saying that. And so, when you began to talk about how comparison is a thief of joy, and the key is to compare to someone that has less. And so I sat there and I thought, you know, Lord, you've been so kind to give us this house. It may not be the newest, it may not the shiniest and the best on the block, but you know what? There's a lot of people in this world that don't even have a home. Yeah, or they have a home And it's in a much rougher area. It's in lot worse shade. Yeah, and they would be very happy and delighted to have this house that we have. And so Lord for that, I'm grateful.

Chris [00:32:41] Well, you know, when it comes to money and marriage, we all want clarity and confidence, right? And especially unity with spouses, right? I think Lisa, that's why we get to work personally with Colby Gilmore of Blue Trust.

Alisa [00:32:55] That's right, Colby Gilmore, along with other Blue Trust certified wealth strategists, offers personalized, biblically centered financial planning and investment management services, no matter what your income level is.

Chris [00:33:09] Lisa say that title twice blue trust certified wealth strategist. That's a time. I'm not sure I could I know So they put day do put clients best interest first and they don't sell financial products. I love that about them

Alisa [00:33:21] Me too, and you know what, we highly recommend Colby Gilmore and Blue Trust for anyone looking for both financial unity with your spouse and opportunities to increase your wealth and your generosity.

Chris [00:33:33] Yeah, so if you guys want to check out ronblue.com or reach out to Colby Gilmore at colby.gilmore at ron blue.com that's colby dot gilmore at rong blue. Com I think you guys will be glad you did.

Alisa [00:33:54] And so there's a really interesting study that, you know, as we wrap up, that I want you to tell about the cucumber study. Sure, young. Will you tell our listeners and viewers about that?

Chris [00:34:04] Yeah, it's great. At least I think the house example is really an important one to grab hold of. What you did there is because it's not like you're going to go and say to, you know, compare, oh, look at that guy. He's homeless and that makes me feel better. What we're talking about is it resulting in gratitude, not in pride. Gratitude of, I have a whole lot more than a whole lot of other people have. I live in a great city, a great state, a great country.

Alisa [00:34:37] What I have.

Chris [00:34:39] And there are millions, if not a billion, people that would trade with me today, right? Oh, okay, yeah, and it's a great example that you also kind of brought up, which is a guy did some studies looking at, he studied capuchin monkeys, and in these capuchins What he would do is... He found out as he worked with them, they're very social, they like to share. But they're also, because they're social animals, they do comparisons, right? They look and they like to treat each other kind of accordingly, in a good way. Well anyway, he found out that they really liked cucumbers and so they knew that and they used those as treats, right. They did something good, they accomplished the task, they get a cucumber. And so he put two monkeys side by side in this little demonstration, and a monkey would do something, he'd give it a cucumber, and of course the monkey was like, great, I love these things, I like these things. You know, and he'd eat it. And he'd the other one, the same thing, you know, he'd him, you know a cucumber. Well, he then introduced something that one of the monkeys got that the other ones didn't, which is what they loved even more than cucumbers was a grape, right? Just a grape. And so as a reward, that was like the greatest. So anyway, this monkey one does the task, he gets a cucumber, monkey two does this task, same task, and they're watching each other. Now he gets the grape. Well, what before had been accepted as, this is appropriate and good. This cucumber is awesome. Cucumber's perfect for me. All of a sudden, seeing somebody else get the grape, led monkey number one to go, all right, that's what's coming down. I'll do the task, do the tasks, wait. And the guy, the researcher gives him a cucumber. Well, this monkey looks at this cucumber, looks at the researcher, looks at the other monkey who's enjoying his grape after doing the same task and goes, I don't like this cucumber anymore. In fact, he takes that cucumber, just kind of whips it and throws it right at the experimenter. And so. Monkey number two does his task, gets the grape, comes back to monkey number one. Now monkey number is going, wait. What the heck? He's getting great. He's like getting mad and shaking the cake. Oh, he is crushing it. He does the task, reaches his hand out, and he gets a cucumber. And now he is angry. He's, okay. First of all, we won't dive into the question, you know, where they do in comparisons, what was happening. He was just angry. Threw the cucumber right back because he recognized something. Now I think the moral of what I take from that kind of research is we see how another person is treated once I accept from the experimenter that the cucumber is good it should be good forever until somebody else something better. Now I'm not being treated fair. One of the fascinating passages in the Bible are those that went to work. Jesus tells this story, right, of workers. And they went out at eight a.m. And he said, you go do this, and I'm gonna give you a, let's say a shilling, I don't know what it was, a gold coin. And you do that work, eight hours, I'ma pay you at the end. And they all agreed, like that cucumber, that. That's a good thing, man. And Benny hired workers at 11 that morning, and then some at two, and even some at four who had to only work for an hour, lined them all up, the vying, you know, the keeper, the owner of the farm, then hands each of them the exact same coin regardless of how long they had worked. And the ones that worked at eight o'clock and started, who before had accepted that This was okay. Now begin to grumble and complain and say that's not fair that how he worked for an hour and he gets the same pay as me who's been here eight hours slaving away yeah and what did the owner say you know

Alisa [00:39:00] Oh man, I hate that because I could totally identify with that though. I mean really, in real life, that would stink. That would stink if you worked all day and worked hard and diligently and then somebody else came in at the last minute and got the exact same pay. I can totally see that I would feel the same way.

Chris [00:39:23] Yeah and this is where comparisons come in, right? Because at 8 a.m. When it was promised to me it was considered fair and just and correct and instead they grumbled and complained and looking how he treated and I think the owner basically said, which was Jesus's Why do you grumble and complain? Because I am generous with those who work. Can't I be generous to who I want to be generous? I can be generous with who I wanna be generous. And you found this acceptable. And it really does get to the heart of this topic. Gratitude, complaining, and comparisons are killers that we have to be very careful of. And I think this has been known. It's demonstrated now, not only in the moral and the story of Jesus and the workers. But it's in, you know, the work that these researchers are doing with Capuchin monkeys. And we see it every day in social media, in our comparisons, whether they're for financial or personal or beauty or height or spiritual things. It's the thief of our joy.

Alisa [00:40:34] Yeah. So, so as we think about it, so let's talk just briefly and kind of summarize what we would say are the antidotes to comparison and to those feelings like I don't, either I don t measure up or what I'm receiving doesn't measure up.

Chris [00:40:52] I think the first one you said is take off the filters, recognize that what you're seeing out there, if it's social media stuff, remove and recognize that that's probably not the reality of most of these people living these lives, that they're showing just a small portion and that is probably edited. And be careful who you're watching all of the time and then pull aside, you know, Pull back the curtain! Right? In Wizard of the Oz, they pulled back the curtain and it was no longer the scary wizard, it was just a guy, right, behind a microphone. So first thing, that's one, right?

Alisa [00:41:30] And the second one you talked about is, is practicing the art of gratitude, the discipline of gratitude sometimes.

Chris [00:41:36] Yep, I think practicing the art of gratitude may be the most important one. It does balance and allows you to focus on what you've been given, oftentimes is so amazing and so powerful, abundant, especially when we compare with the less fortunate. I think the third one that we talked about early on right was this idea that when comparisons, you know, are likely to happen, that I need to think through, all right, what am I like? Where are my strengths? What are my good? It's part of gratitude. What have I gotten? What have i received? And then who am I, Lord? And how can you use the way you made me as the most effective person? And so it's finding out a little bit of like, oh, okay, I'm kind of good at that. I'm going to move forward in that way. And not worry that I don't have this or that or this thing. I have this and I could use this. And so it's kind of finding out a little bit more about yourself.

Alisa [00:42:46] Yeah, delighting in the way God has wired you and created you, right? And then I think another really powerful strategy is intentionally praising and celebrating other people. Oh, yeah. And so especially the person that, you know, maybe they got the promotion that you were going for. And it's really hard for you. But one of the strategies is to genuinely celebrate that person. And maybe we have to start with being really honest with God and saying, you know what Lord, I don't feel like celebrating. I feel like I should have gotten it. And so Lord, I need you to sit with this, sit with me in this. And is there something that I'm a lie that I'm believing about myself, that I don't measure up, that I'm not as good because I didn't get that. Is there something the enemy is feeding into me that I am believing that I need to stop and I need rebuke and I say, nope, here's my identity in Christ. I'm NOT the loser that you're trying to make me feel like I am. But I'm actually a delighted daughter of the King. I am beloved, I am forgiven, I'm the... That apple of my father's eye, he exalts over me. And so to pause in that and start dealing, I think with my own heart, with the Lord, but then stepping out and taking the step to actually celebrate the other person. Write him a congratulation note, send the email and say, I'm really happy for you. You know, you worked hard. You did some really great things or hey, you got that really awesome speaking engagement that I was really hoping that we would get. But you know what, you are so talented, you're so gifted, the Lord is using you in some incredible ways and I will be praying for your success.

Chris [00:44:45] Now, good job, Elise. I, that's hard, right? Uh, and so wrap it up, right. We at the Art of Relationships and here at the Center for Marriage and Relationships, we're, we're donor-based, right, we, we survive, we thrive, we do our ministry based upon donors, right that have given donors like you, donors like that give to us that we don't take any money from the university. And I remember, Lise, it wasn't obviously too long ago, where that challenge of expressing the joy of someone was when a gift came in. And we thought that the gift would be to help part of the center's needs, you know, and it would give us the ability to continue. Well, the gift didn't go to us. It went to the university. And I remembered going- about this. This is hard, we don't get it. I didn't really get any of that, yeah. And at least I just remember it's to help anybody out there listening like, oh, okay, well, then put your, you know, money where your mouth is, so to speak, and celebrate the joy. It was hard, it was hard at that moment to go, wow, this hurts, this would have helped. And in- And to be able to do ultimately what we did do, which was to celebrate the joyous moment. For the universe. For the, to get a gift like that, for the universe, and to actually feel that. You know, it was hard to get those feelings there, but to be to say, oh man, that's gonna be awesome.

Alisa [00:46:28] Yeah, to get those feelings though, we have to, like you said, put our money where our mouth was. We have to talk about, okay, we're getting the cucumber, we didn't get the grape. The grape would have been that awesome big donation, right? But we're giving the cucumber. We get an awesome facility to house our center here at the university. We have awesome people to come alongside us that help support us in our ministry We have an awesome staff. We get to work together and do this together. I mean, who gets to, how many people get to live their dream job, and we get to do it together. There's so much positive about what we get to do, and so that really began to shift our feelings about it, our emotions about it. And to your credit, I remember you actually sent an email to the president of our university and said, We are delighted to know that the university got that huge donation. And it's a huge, because as the university goes, so goes our center. And so we are just delighted and we are celebrating with you. And you really meant it. And can I just stop and say that meant a lot to me as your wife and as your partner in life to actually see you do that and read that email. It gave me pause to go, wow, Chris Grace. Okay, that was pretty awesome. I'm not sure I could have written that email right now, but I can totally respect that you wrote that. And I admire that and that challenges me. This is where the good comparison comes that now you have challenged me in a positive way to own my own jealous heart and to be real with the Lord about that and be honest. And then to say, Lord. I need to do better. I need do better and I need your help to do better.

Chris [00:48:29] Yeah. Well, thanks. You know, they'll never know. Dr. Corey, I'm sorry. All the anonymous things that I said about you on TikTok and Instagram, hiding behind anonymous, calling you really lazy, no good, not a nice man. You did not. No, I didn't. But thanks, Lise. To be able to recognize that God has us, He's created us each who we are. Our comparison is Jesus, and he accepts us. He created us and made us. And it's...

Alisa [00:49:08] Know we're getting us changing us from glory unto glory right it's a process we're not gonna arrive and you know I would just encourage our listeners and viewers too that if you're not there right now that's okay cut yourself some slack give yourself some grace and just bring the Lord into it and and talk with him about it process that with him and ask him to show you the truth of who you are, how He has wired you, and what He has created you to be. And called you to be and realized that he gives the increase. He gives the ability. We bring him our little fish and loves the bread. He's the one that multiplies it, makes it more than enough. And we can delight in what God has called us to do. That is the best place to be, not where person A or B is, but where I am and what he's called me to do and that's gonna be the place that brings the most joy.

Chris [00:50:05] It's a good word to end on, man. That's it. That's right there. Well, Hey, um, thanks. That was fine. Let's do another one on this idea and continue thinking about it. Cause it's a big impactful thing for a lot of people. And I think this has been a hope it's it's helped me think through the thing that, ah, okay, I could do this a little bit better. I need to stop doing this and start doing more of that.

Alisa [00:50:29] So, well, thanks for joining us here at the Art of Relationships. And just want to encourage you to check out more of our resources. Some of them, a lot of them are absolutely free. That's on our website at cmr.biola.edu. And we really appreciate you taking your time to join us today because we know you could be doing a lot other things.

Chris [00:50:51] And you probably are while you're watching this, so drive straight and pay attention to the road. Get off of this Spotify right now and get them dishes done, because your house is a mess.

Alisa [00:51:03] That don't compare yourself to anybody else. Somebody else's is messier. Just messing with you. Okay, we'll see you next time.

Mandy [00:51:11] We're very glad you joined us for today's podcast. For more resources on marriage and healthy relationships, please visit our website at cmr.biola.edu. We'll see you next time on The Art of Relationships.