Small Moments, Big Impact: How to Keep Your Relationship Thriving

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In this episode, Chris and Alisa Grace explore bids for attention—small interactions that can significantly impact the strength of a relationship. They discuss how recognizing and responding to these bids can prevent couples from drifting apart, drawing on research from Drs. John and Julie Gottman. The Grace's provide practical insights and tips to help you stay connected with your partner, emphasizing the power of intentional time together. Whether you're navigating life with a significant other, friends, or even colleagues, this episode offers valuable advice to improve your relationships.

Resources Mentioned:

• The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work by John Gottman – A guide to strengthening relationships through understanding key emotional and relational principles.
• Gottman Institute – Learn more about the research behind bids for attention and other relationship dynamics.
• Ronald Blue Trust – A biblically-centered wealth planning service that supports couples in financial unity. Visit ronblue.com for more or contact Colby Gilmore at colby.gilmore@ronblue.com. 

Connect with Us:

• Website: cmr.biola.edu
• Facebook: facebook.com/biolacmr
• Instagram: instagram.com/biolacmr
• Twitter: twitter.com/biolacmr

Join the Conversation:

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About the Hosts: Chris Grace, Ph.D., and Alisa Grace are passionate about helping people build and sustain healthy relationships. As leaders of the Biola University Center for Marriage and Relationships, they combine the wisdom of Scripture with scholarly research to offer practical advice and insights. Learn more about their work at cmr.biola.edu.

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Intro/Outro [00:00:01] Welcome to the Art of Relationships. This podcast is produced by the Biola University Center for Marriage and Relationships. Let's get right into it.

 

Chris [00:00:11] Welcome to another Art of Relationships podcast. What a fun thing to be able to do, Alisa. So, listeners out there, we've taken the summer off a little bit to just recharge and take a little bit of a vacation time and Alisa it was great. But I always miss just being able to do this.

 

Alisa [00:00:32] Me too. I miss being in here. I've missed recording and just having this opportunity to connect with our listeners and we've heard from some of you that you missed us. And you know what? We missed you, too. So we've got a terrific season coming up next.

 

Chris [00:00:48] Yeah, I'm just firing on all cylinders. I think you guys are going to love what I have to say. But more importantly, I think Alisa is so well rested and ready to go. Man, you're going to just this just I think this might win an Emmy.

 

Alisa [00:01:03] Do they do Emmy's for podcasts?

 

Chris [00:01:04] I don't know what they do for they give some sort of podcast award. Anybody out there know? Just nominate us and let's just see how it goes.

 

Alisa [00:01:13] There you go. There you go.

 

Chris [00:01:14] We love doing this because our goal is for this podcast is just to be able to talk about all things relationships, right? Alisa I think that just gives an opportunity for us as well. Hopefully the listeners to be able to start thinking about some things that they're doing well, some things they might want to fix, and then even some things like, okay, this is broken. I, I talked the other day, happened to be a student, a married student, and without giving you all the details, he just shared, you know, it just went off the rails early in our marriage. And I don't know what to do. I don't know where and why. And so I think today, Lis, maybe we should start with this idea that I would share with this person, this student. When we get together again, I'll share something Lis that I think really has some great data behind it, and that's this notion that couples that make it through six years, you know, if you go let's let's say married couples, they make it to the sixth year. They have a greater chance of surviving and thriving in their marriage if they do one thing a little bit differently. And that is this notion of they connect well, they pay attention to each other and they hear and it's just the little things. In fact, a researcher, John and Julie Gottman, have called this a bid for connection. And Lis, I think as we talk about this, what research has found is this 86% or more of the couples who hear and connect with and turn toward a partner in their bids actually divorce at such a lower rate. It's shocking compared to couples who, after a full six years, have, for whatever reason, stopped or turned against or away from their partner. And the only 38% of those make it without divorcing. Okay, that's a big number. Any time you see that in research, some 86% are, you know, are thriving after six years because they do this one thing very well. They do a lot of little, you know, and other big things as well, too. But Lis, let's talk about what the Gottman's have found, what people you know, we speak, we get a chance to speak with Focus on the Family and Family Life. And we talk about this. You know, we've been trained in Gottman at the Gottman, you know, their levels of training. And we've done this now and we speak, you know, at universities. But every single time I think this is one of the issues that is such a small change that couples can do that can be so impactful, so important for their relationship. And you can start it now at any time you can work. It works in a business setting. It works with children. It works in couples. So, Lis, what do you think? Let's talk about it.

 

Alisa [00:04:27] Well, I would I would say as we go and we speak all over the country, thousands of people every year. And what's one of the most common problems that we see for couples, Chris? And I think it's this it's that we are so tired, we are so exhausted that we just don't how do we stay connected when you don't have the time, you don't have the energy at the end of the day to do it. How do we do that? And one of the problems is that. We have so many good things going on, right? We've got work. We've got church. A lot of us have kids. Some of us have school. We have in-laws that we're taking care of. We have babies that we're taking care of elderly parents.

 

Chris [00:05:14] We're on Instagram.

 

Alisa [00:05:15] Yes, we have hobbies. We have all sorts of really good things. But when we let those good things become too numerous or we get our priorities out of whack, then we begin to feel that disconnect. Then we begin to sense that, wow, I'm we haven't even really talked this week. We haven't even really spent time together this month. And and all of a sudden we are not doing well. And I don't really know how we got here.

 

Chris [00:05:46] I think that right there is, as you said, it's probably the number one thing we hear from most young couples, but even couples that have been married for decades, it's this easy tendency to drift apart, to not, you know, stay connected. But it's that busyness. It's that life comes in and it you know, we always think, well, once we're married, you know, we'll be able to take on the world together. And yeah, that does happen. But you're right, man. Life keeps going, right? And if it's not children, it is definitely a workload that keeps you away for months on end. And. Right. It's two people trying to survive. And in just dating relationships, it's the same thing. You know, you start on this amazing high, you know, this fun, you know, adventure that begins together. And then sometimes it starts to creep in where busyness life takes over and all of a sudden you find yourself like, wow, I have to make some cuts here. I can't keep hanging out with all my buddies and then go, you know, hang out and try and interact with this person that I'm dating. And all of a sudden now you're just busy roommates, right? All of a sudden you just can't even. And so what's Lis, the the the big, I guess, idea, the solution, What are we going to do? And then how do we start this kind of conversation about what recognizing and understanding what's called this, you know, a bid for attention?

 

Alisa [00:07:21] Yeah. Well, as we get into that, I think it's really important to realize that for most couples, most of us, and I think we would say we found ourselves there, too. Chris at one point, I can remember that in our earlier years, we had two young young kids. We had a not even quite two year old and a new baby. And I can remember a sitting on the back porch one night in the dark and both of us with tears in our eyes, sitting there talking and saying, you know what, this is not what I signed up for. This isn't how we started out. This isn't how what we thought marriage was going to be like when we started out so good. What happened? I don't know what happened, but I just know that I'm not happy. You're not happy? Something's got to change.

 

Chris [00:08:13] Yeah. And I think one of the first things I suggested was, I wonder if we could give these kids back or, you know, just. Just. I mean, just give them a way. There's  people. Well, anyway. And you just said, no, Chris, we. These are our children. And then so, you know, I just thought I'm not sure what in the world is going on with us either, Lis, But it it's it's not fun. It's almost as if we started to become roommates, right? Yes.

 

Alisa [00:08:41] Instead of soulmates. Yeah, exactly. And I think what you're getting at, Chris, is that it happens really one small step, one small decision, one missed opportunity at a time. Right.

 

Chris [00:08:54] They're tiny moments, aren't they? There's millions of them. Yeah.

 

Alisa [00:08:57] And this author once wrote, he said, you know, nobody breaks up over adultery, but it starts out over the way you talk at dinner. It's the small daily incivility toward each other, the apologies that go unspoken, the kisses that go unkissed, the meals that pass in silence. Or maybe it's the money that's wasted, but it's in that inevitable endpoint of eating at different times, sleeping on the sofa because you got home late or maybe choosing to go on a vacation with someone else or even watching different things on TV or on your phones instead of going to the movies together that are making plans in which the other one's not included. So you just end up you if we call it gentle neglect that slow drift apart.

 

Chris [00:09:50] You know, we were just speaking at a conference. We won't tell you the state because it's it's not that big, I guess. And not that anybody didn't know but this couple came up. And actually during the while we were out there, we asked I asked a question about interest right and this guy raises his hand and he said, man, I love the Seattle Seahawks. And he just loved them. And, you know, he would wait for the season to start. And I said, you know, that's funny because I have kind of a similar passion for the Dodgers. And Lis, I did this to you. I said, Lis, by the way, listeners out there, my wife, beautiful and wonderful and sweet as she is really doesn't have a sports bone in her body. She loves to play. She played softball and baseball growing up as a kid.

 

Alisa [00:10:38] And I was the only girl in my baseball team in sixth grade.

 

Chris [00:10:41] I'm sure you were.

 

Alisa [00:10:43] Also could outrun every boy on my team.

 

Chris [00:10:46] You were fast because they're all they were all chasing you. And one of the things, though, is, you know, when we were first married, you made this intentional effort to get to know three things. Every player for the Los Angeles Dodgers, the Denver Broncos and the L.A. Lakers. And I would watch every one of those sports and we would play. So anyway, at least the story goes, you know, I ask you today, 35 years later, you still you know, if you're alone, you're not going to watch a game by yourself. You know, you're going to go do something else. But if I asked you today and what we want to do is on this podcast, well, let's start ready. Lis, who's the first baseman for the Los Angeles Dodgers?

 

Alisa [00:11:26] Freddie Freeman.

 

Chris [00:11:27] Yep. Who's the second baseman?

 

Alisa [00:11:30] Gavin Lux.

 

Chris [00:11:30] Who's the shortstop?

 

Alisa [00:11:32] Miguel Rojas.

 

Chris [00:11:32] Who's the third baseman?

 

Alisa [00:11:34] Max Muncy, who.

 

Chris [00:11:35] Plays left.

 

Alisa [00:11:36] Chris Taylor And sometimes Don't Tell Me Teoscar.

 

Chris [00:11:40] The Oscar Hernandez who plays center.

 

Alisa [00:11:42] Tommy Edmonds, Tommy Edmonds.

 

Chris [00:11:43] He's a new pickup who plays right field.

 

Alisa [00:11:46] Mookie Betts.

 

Chris [00:11:47] Who's the most amazing d.h in all of baseball? Probably the MVP this year.

 

Alisa [00:11:52] So, hey, show me the money. Ohtani, who.

 

Chris [00:11:56] Plays behind the base, who's catching Will.

 

Alisa [00:11:58] Smith.

 

Chris [00:11:58] And then who's the let's let's pick out the best pitcher in the world.

 

Alisa [00:12:02] It's got to be my fellow Texan. Right? Clayton Kershaw.

 

Chris [00:12:05] Okay, check that out. Y'all listeners she she doesn't love the Dodgers for but but for one reason, because I love the Dodgers. She watches it because I like it. She keeps up with Shohei having 55 stolen bases and 52 first member of the 5050 Club. She knows it. Why? Because I do. So here we are at this conference. Guy raises his hand says, I just love the Seattle Seahawks. And so I look at the wife and I say, Ah, hey, wife, who's the starting quarterback of the Seattle Seahawks? And she goes, I have no idea. I go to the other room whenever he watches and I do my own thing. And I just thought, well, okay. Yeah, I get that, you know. But not knowing your husband's favorite passion.

 

Alisa [00:12:52] It was a missed opportunity. It was a missed opportunity to connect with him.

 

Chris [00:12:56] Now, that could work. We don't have to do every single time. I don't have to connect with you over, I don't know, finding someplace to go. Do whatever you. You know. For you. I mean, I don't.

 

Alisa [00:13:08] Go to Disneyland.

 

Chris [00:13:09] With. I don't..

 

Alisa [00:13:10] You know, with my girls.

 

Chris [00:13:11] Yeah. She gets to go to Disneyland. I couldn't tell you the first thing about what Disneyland looks like. Well, I could because I was there one time and I felt like they robbed me of millions of dollars just to walk in the door. And I. I'll never do this again. So but all that to say we have separate interests. But here's the thing. Separate interests, separate things are those things that slowly start turning us away from each other and from our key passions and areas of interest. You know, there are some people who bond with friends, right? You're in college, you're hanging out, you graduated, you meet somebody and all of a sudden you find you really like a person simply because they pay attention to you. We all love anybody that pays attention to us. So you might be with a friend and you might say, man, check out you're driving together or you're walking past and let's say an ice cream truck drives by and you're with this new friend and they go, man, I love ice cream trucks and getting an ice cream for they're so fun. The other person go, okay, yeah, whatever, and turn away or ignore that bid by somebody that you kind of go, I like this person. Also you have to do is go, I love those too. I remember hearing that or, that's so fun. We didn't have those growing up. We should go check it out.

 

Alisa [00:14:30] Wasn't it C.S. Lewis who said that friendship starts at that moment, that you look at somebody else and you say, What, you too? I thought I was the only one.

 

Chris [00:14:40] Exactly. At least that's it. And that's the beginning of friendships. That's the beginning of a relationship. That's what marriages do really well. And then something begins to happen when you get busy. Right, Lis? I mean, it's this idea that you start, you know, changing.

 

Alisa [00:14:57] Yeah. So let's talk about when when you have that drift apart that you're moving from becoming from from where you used to be soul mates to becoming roommates. What does that look like? What are, what are some characteristics of a relationship that is more like roommates than they're more like soulmates? And I would say one of the first characteristics would be exhaustion. You're just exhausted, keeping up with daily schedules. You're sleep deprived. A lot of us, we go to midnight, we get out, go to bed at midnight, we're getting up at six. That's just not enough sleep. And we're just tired. We're taking care of multiple people and doing multiple responsibilities.

 

Chris [00:15:36] No, I think that's great. Let's let's bring it down to friends that they connect over playing, let's say intramural football. It's now the fall. They both love. They both love, let's say the same team they're playing. Or maybe they're they're in a band together or they're, you know, and also they're starting this friendship. What ends up happening is that exhaustion, Lis, is also oftentimes that there are other interests, other things that come in into play. Right. And you're just you have so many you're just too busy. I remember having a friend in college and I thought, this is the coolest guy I just liked him. And I just thought right away and we bonded over, you know, little things. But you hung out. We paid attention. Well, I haven't spoken to him since he left the college, but one of the things that I noticed happened was it's like he lived on a different on a different floor than I did. That meant that there were other people and he was busy with he had a completely different major. We never saw each other all that much. And it just was this busyness that kept people apart, right? It wasn't like I didn't like him or, you know, we couldn't have become friends. And I think couples get tired. They get busy. They have too many time demands on them.

 

Alisa [00:17:00] Yeah. I think another sign is that they've become functional, like their communication is simply functional. Like, okay, what time are you picking up the kids? We've got this going on. I've got a doctor's appointment on Tuesday. Hey, can can you pick up the dry cleaning on the way home? Don't forget that we have so-and-so coming over for dinner on Friday, and it's just like a check off list instead of time is setting aside time for deep, intimate conversation. So it's just too businesslike.

 

Chris [00:17:28] Yeah. It's like we have this items that we check off that we have to do, and pretty soon you and I never have a conversation that goes much deeper than. Did you see the color of Drew's poop today? You know, it was green. Well, why was it green? Well, I don't know. Somebody fed him. You know, one of those again, the green piece of candy and is like. So that's fun. You know, we can connect over poop. However, that whole kind of going deeper than what went on in their lives or what's going. Kind of. Is that, too? You know, Lis, you mentioned another one. It's it's sometimes it's not negative while it is negative, but it's just it's gentle neglect. Right? Sometimes you simply neglect the other person because of that.

 

Alisa [00:18:10] Yeah. Your relationship takes a backseat to your hobbies or your homework or your other responsibilities. And I think another one is that you just become disengaged and you're essentially leading separate lives. You're doing one thing, I'm doing something else, and that's okay for once in a while. But when that becomes our default and our our regular pattern of interaction is that we're separated. Doing different things are different people for the majority of our time, that's going to lead to a disconnect in our emotional closeness.

 

Chris [00:18:50] You know, at least when it comes to money, I think all of us want unity with our spouse. You know, in the topic of money. We want, you know, to have confidence approaching a topic and clarity because money is a big issue with couples.

 

Alisa [00:19:03] Yeah, it's a it's one of the top six that couples have conflict over. Right. So we're really thankful for the support of Colby Gilmore of Blue Trust and Colby, along with other Blue Trusts certified wealth strategist. He offers a personalized, biblically centered wealth planning experience as well as investment management services. And what I really love about him is it is for people of all income levels.

 

Chris [00:19:30] Yeah, we appreciate that they offer this advice. They put their clients interests first and they don't sell financial products. And, you know, we have experienced these firsthand. The benefit of Colby and Blue Trust's comprehensive, this whole wealth planning experience.

 

Alisa [00:19:45] We really have.

 

Chris [00:19:46] We want to encourage you guys take advantage of this. They're great sponsors of the art of relationship and a biola university. And so take advantage of this transformational opportunity to find out and to find unity with your spouse.

 

Alisa [00:19:59]  So you can learn more about Ronald Blue Trust at Ronblue.com or just contact Colby Gilmore at colby.gilmore@ronblue.com.

 

Chris [00:20:10] Yeah you'll be glad you did. Okay, Lis. So we've diagnosed situations and things like that. What's the outcome? I mean, it's not So what? We missed a few bids we're busy. We'll get back on it. But I think I think you would agree it like you said, out on that patio late that night, you said, Chris, we just don't I just don't like we're not connected. We don't Something's going on. And I believe, Lis, those were the seeds of loneliness. That's that's in my mind. If we wanted to spiritualized this, then pretty soon we could see that there is this growing vastness that's starting to start to appear. And loneliness is this human condition that says even in this same house, even in the same dorm room, even with my friends, I'm beginning to feel lonely. And the loneliness is really the outcome. You know that and feeling, you know, you know, maybe some negative thoughts toward the other person. But I think one of the real big problems is if you start to feel lonely in your relationship, my guess is you're starting to feel unheard, unseen, unrecognized, not important. And in any really, if I'm in a business relationship and there's a colleague, I think sometimes we can exist together for 20, 30 years and never really know another person. Right? And part of that is we miss opportunities to connect, we miss the little things, and then we just get too busy.

 

Alisa [00:22:01] Yeah. And I think the ultimate danger of that, Chris, is that that kind of loneliness leaves us very vulnerable to two big dangers. One of those is infidelity. Somebody else comes along and starts really paying attention to me or to you. Suddenly someone's finds me interesting. Somebody tells me I'm beautiful, somebody thinks everything I say is witty and wise and and funny and, you know, it leaves that that person vulnerable to infidelity and then ultimately to divorce, because you get to that ultimate point of I love you, but I'm not in love and I'm doing air quotes. I'm not in love with you anymore.

 

Chris [00:22:46] That's right. The outcome of loneliness, which let's say is our our great enemy's entire goal, is a union of two people. In this case, let's talk about a marriage brings God glory because there's a team. And what's the enemy going to do is to try and break up that team. And the fact that he's using these little tiny moments to do this, to lead to this larger, you know, problem that many in our society face, which is loneliness, sitting there on a cell phone, scrolling while I could be connecting with this person. So, Lis, in some ways, this is endemic to human nature, this idea that we can be in a room full of people, friends and even family and still feel lonely, has to do with us, does break that down. It probably has to do with not feeling really seen or heard. And that's why, like you said, if somebody all of a sudden sees us or hears us and maybe they're just somebody we work with, and let's say you're married and all of a sudden you're not getting that at home, now you start to go, that's pleasurable, that's desirable. I want to feel heard. I want to feel recognized. The greatest thing I think, for all human beings is to know that they're being paid attention to, that they're important.

 

Alisa [00:24:12] Truly known and truly loved.

 

Chris [00:24:14] Truly known and truly loved. And to check out any baby, what is the most attractive thing to any toddler? Any baby, if you want to connect with them, is simply to pay attention to them. Look at them, smile, get into their world, see what they're doing. And kids are like, I like this person because they're looking at me, they're paying attention to me. I feel seen. I feel known. I feel heard. And the greatest way to get rid of that is just simply by ignoring them or not interacting with them. That kid's going to turn away from you right away. They have this amazing ability to sense out. This person wants to connect with me and mom and laughs at me and smiles with me and giggles when I giggle and makes funny faces. Right? Okay. So loneliness is the result of becoming roommates instead of the like you mentioned, soulmates becoming just acquaintances anymore.

 

Alisa [00:25:10] And just married instead of just married. We're just married.

 

Chris [00:25:15] Yeah, I.

 

Alisa [00:25:16] And I think one really interesting thing about that, too, Chris, is that it doesn't necessarily it's not intentional. It's more natural to.

 

Chris [00:25:29] Know that if.

 

Alisa [00:25:30] This connects, Yeah. Left to our own devices, if we're not paying attention, it's like driving a car. If you're not watching where you're going, paying attention, making small little minor adjustments on that steering wheel, you just take your hands off the steering wheel and let it go its natural way and you're going to drive right off the road and crash. Yeah.

 

Chris [00:25:50] Depends on, of course, your alignment and your tires. But you're right. Exactly. Because that road is always moving and bending. Our journey is never straight.

 

Alisa [00:25:57] Exactly. And we've got to be paying attention and be intentional and and intentionally seek out those moments of connection and being aware.

 

Chris [00:26:07] So what happened, Lis? What why did we find ourselves on the patio that night feeling disconnected, feeling like we didn't know what to do? What I mean, if we diagnose it and what you're saying, hey, are the couples watch out for this. You learn from our experience. I would think it all of these things came into play. I wish we had known a little bit about. Wait a minute. It like you said, the car is a journey tends to drift. We had to do certain tasks, certain things more intentional. If there's a if there's a word I think we would both agree with, if we had both been more intentional about the goings on of the other person and listened to the other person. And and and stop and say, hey, let's get together. Let's talk what's going on in your heart? What's going on in your mind? What's what's life like for you right now?

 

Alisa [00:27:04] What how can I help.

 

Chris [00:27:05] And how can I help? That would have changed everything. That's an amazing bid. Yeah. You know, one thing we didn't talk about Lis, though, was these bids. Sometimes, you know, we make bids and we just don't see them because they're too busy. Sometimes one of us could have made a bid for a connection, and we just would have went, You know what? I just choose to ignore it. I don't want to because I'm so ticked off or I'm too busy. Why are you always interrupting? You know, the Dodgers are about to score. It's bases loaded and it's the eighth inning. Ninth inning. And why are you coming in here asking about that? Stop. Right. So I could turn that bid that you're saying, Hey, Chris, let's go have a snack. I'm like, no, let's don't. Well, do that enough times. And pretty soon you turn not only away, you can even get mad, right? Person Like, why do you always interrupt me? Yeah. So those are the that's the diagnosing this, right, Lisa?

 

Alisa [00:28:02] Well yeah, if we if we have to define exactly what is a bid for connection, how how would you define that? And it would be this a bid for connection is an invitation to connect with somebody else. It's any positive action that you do to get your spouse's attention, your friend, your mom, your dad's attention, your kids attention. Right. But it's any positive action that you do to get someone's attention, affirmation, affection or their support. It could be something you do or something you say, like last night I came in the I was getting ready for bed. I came in the bedroom and you were already back there. And the first thing you did is she said, Lis, did you see Wait, C'mere. Watch this. Because it's the bottom of the ninth. The Dodgers are down by one. And and look what's happening to this. And so that was a bid for connection from you. Lis. C'mere. Watch this. And so I could either turn away, which would be like, you know, I didn't really hear you. And I just keep going. Or I just say, Yeah, that's okay. You keep watching. It's a neutral response. It's not really positive, not really negative. Or I could turn against that bid and say something really negative, like, my gosh, I could care less about the Dodgers. You know I do. I don't care. You just watch it. That's all you want to do is watch sports that's really negative. Or you can turn I could turn toward you, which John Gottman says is the most positive response. And that's where I actually engage with you. So what did I do? I set my stuff down. I came over to your side of the bed and I watched the last standing with you. And then we cheered when when they got the tying homerun. And then, of course, Shohei Ohtani, that tying homerun and then the winning homerun for Mookie. Yes. And that's a bid that's responding.

 

Chris [00:29:54] Yeah, there's all kinds of bids. It could be like, hey, how do I look today? Or do you like this outfit? Or like even dogs do bids for attention. One word. All you have to say is squirrel. You know, squirrel and all the other dogs look like a squirrel. Well, if I say, Hey, Lis, look at that squirrel out there. You know, I don't have to verbalize that. I just saw a squirrel in the backyard. But if you go. Yeah, that's so cool. I've seen that squirrel around here. Yeah, That is turning toward. Yeah, that's the turning to it. Could be. Hey, what have you been up to, right? You know.

 

Alisa [00:30:28] Or you were angry at me and my dream last night.

 

Chris [00:30:34] I have dreams. You know, it's. It's so messed up, man. My dreams, for whatever reason, for a while there. I would. I would be dreaming. And Alisa would do something really mean in the dream to me. And I would.

 

Alisa [00:30:48] Wake up mad.

 

Chris [00:30:49] And wake up. All ticked off. I'm like, Lis, man, why did you. You shouldn't do that. Why did you say that? And she's like, Why am I always the bad person in your dreams?

 

Alisa [00:30:59] Something deeper's going on here. We need to unpack.

 

Chris [00:31:01] Yeah, we're going to do a Dream podcast at some point because I don't believe any of that, but whatever or you know, it could be anything. Lis Hey. Yeah, go ahead.

 

Alisa [00:31:10] Like, hey, you want to watch a movie tonight? Yeah. You wanna go to Sonic? Hey, did you read that article in the newspaper or. You got to see this. This funny video on Instagram. This is so funny.

 

Chris [00:31:20] And so the reason this is important, already, 86% of couples in their research were found when they gave a bid. The other person paid attention. They were still married after six years, while when they turned against or ignored the bid. Only 36% of those couples that were horrible at responding and paying attention to each other's bids were still married. That's an amazing statistic. He watched these people for six years. But you know what else he found? So there were couples that were striving after these six years and and stuck on a scale of 1 to 10, there are 1 or 2 and they were still there. And the difference between those after six years that were thriving on a scale of like eight, 9 or 10 that they rated their marriage, he found the bids were off. He also found out that they just simply weren't spending as much time together. The couples that were thriving doing well actually just found a few more hours each week to spend together, which is part of the bids. Okay. So the big difference was these bids and he called it the magic of just five hours a week. They found five more hours a week to connect for bids. What does five hours mean? It means 30 minutes on a, you know, a Monday for lunch. It meant that they tried to put in about 15 minutes for a walk in the morning or an hour long thing or a date night. That's three hours. That's five hours. Couples that thrived found more time for bids and connecting. And he called it the magic of five hours. So for any couples out there struggling, Lis, I think we have some suggestions for you. Right. Here's the suggestions. Start thinking about bids. Start thinking about what bid am I giving? What bids are my spouse start paying attention. I think if there's one word in the marriage relationship, health vocabulary that I would tell everybody to memorize, it's learn to pay attention. You miss a word. Somebody the other night at dinner said something to somebody sitting right next to them. And we were there at this dinner and the guy says to a complete stranger, The people we were with, yeah, I live only five minutes from here and we walk here. Well, another person that we know actually lives five minutes and also walks to that restaurant and they completely it just blew over. They missed that bid. Well, it would have been cool to be able to just say, where do you live? Because we do the same thing. Well, you know, it was their chance, their attempt to kind of bid. We do that with strangers and others. So pay attention, listen to the details. Shut off work school for just moments. Social media. Right. Turn it off for just a minute and start listening to the other person, their bids and learn what a bid is and then respond positively.

 

Alisa [00:34:27] It does. It's something so small that can make the biggest difference. In fact, when when you and I learn this concept, I remember specifically when we learned this concept at a conference that we were actually coaching couple. Do you remember when that happened? We were a coaching couple at this conference that someone else was teaching. The after we learned about the bids for attention or bids for Connection, we started just playfully calling them out to each other because we were starting to notice some more be aware. So like when we're driving in the car, I would reach over and just kind of pat Chris' arm while he's driving and I would just jokingly say bids for connection, bid for connection. And he would laugh or he would say, Hey, you know, you want to go do some bid for attention bid for attention. And it that what that did was even playfully, it really it just increased our awareness of each other's bids. And by noticing that that was a bid that you were bidding for my affirmation, my attention, my love, that I just begin to think, wow, after this many years, you still want to connect with me deeply and emotionally. That is so cool. That is so cool. Because you easily could do that towards someone else, but you don't. You faithfully do that toward me. And even at times when I might be tired or, you know, just not as on fire, about responding positively by whatever circumstances are going on. If I can just remember that perspective that, hey, I'm tired, I just want to go wash my face, get in bed, turn out the light. I don't want to really connect right now, But you know what? He's reaching out to me in that bid for connection because he wants to be with me and that encourages me and helps me to respond to see it for what it is and to take that extra effort to respond positively.

 

Chris [00:36:33] I think that's that's the secret. And I think what we do in these places, if you're a couple, you know, if you're roommates, friends and you're feeling that that relationship is kind of faltering and you want to recharge it right down and think about all the different bids, you know, write down and think about all the things they do or that you've done and then and then do your best to start, you know, hearing the little bids that are out there and turn positively towards them. Like you said, man, I'll tell you what, you start doing that, you start writing these down. You start as you said, you start paying attention to it. Pretty soon you realize, wait a minute, maybe this loneliness and this disconnect that I'm feeling, maybe I have something to do with this because I'm letting this drift it's fading away, you know, And instead I can do something about it. And it's not that difficult to recharge and reconnect. So.

 

Alisa [00:37:25] Exactly.

 

Chris [00:37:26] Well, I think Lis it's it's a great reminder of something that happens multiple, multiple times a day in many of our relationships that is easy to lose and to drift off the road but is also easy to regain, isn't it?

 

Alisa [00:37:46] It is. And and if you have some questions about I wonder how are we doing as a couple there, if you when you begin to notice the bids that you're making, the bids your spouse is making and and how you are responding intentionally, purposefully or, wow, I didn't even think about it, but we actually respond really positively. That can be a huge encouragement that, yeah, hey, we're doing pretty good. We do this really well and we want you to celebrate that. That's awesome. And if it's if you can't think of bids that your spouse is making or that you are making towards your spouse, maybe that's an indication of maybe this is an area like you were saying that we need to pay attention to and make an effort, intentional effort to grow in and really stop that slow, inevitable drift apart, but really pay attention because man, it's fun when you start picking them up.

 

Chris [00:38:41] It is is awesome. And it's a great reminder for all of us. It is one of these things that once we grab a hold of, we can beat this tendency towards isolation, loneliness. And I think we start doing that in a way, Lis that begins to bring people back to their first love, even, right? That that who God is. And that notion of even spiritual intimacy, like God is seeking our attention all the time. That flower, I think a flower or a bee or a beautiful sunset, maybe God's bid for our attention, like why? Why am I not consciously thinking about him that much? I think he's designed this world to give us bids for his attention that we miss. And since we are created in his image, I think one of the best things we could do is realize, Wow, wait a minute. Hold on. I just got to just cut off these things that are making me too exhausted, too tired, too distracted to notice that beautiful sunset, that amazing person he's given me. And then to be able to go, yeah, I'm just going to stop here with gratitude and gratefulness. I have this.

 

Alisa [00:39:59] Person, I invite that special someone to come and enjoy that sunset.

 

Chris [00:40:03] Wouldn't that be awesome?

 

Alisa [00:40:03]  Would be great. So that's one of the strategies that we have to really reconnect you as a couple. And in our next episode we're going to give you part two our second strategy. Steps you can take to fight that natural drift and help you resist that drift in your relationship, in your marriage. So, Chris, it's so good to be back in the saddle with you again. Thanks for being here today.

 

Chris [00:40:28] Yeah, me too. It's good to be here. Thanks for doing this. And thanks to our help here in the office. We have Chloe Brown helping us today with all the tech stuff. Thank you for that. And hey, we'll we'll catch you next time on the Art of Relationships podcast. We'll talk to you soon.

 

Alisa [00:40:44] Bye bye.

 

Outro [00:40:47] We're very glad you joined us for today's podcast. For more resources on marriage and healthy relationships, please visit our website at  cmr.biola.edu. We'll see you next time on the Art of Relationships.